Quests opportunities while playing the "evil" way...

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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
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Magean

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Hi,

Most of the times, in classical RPG (looking at you, Baldur's Gate), role-playing a selfish, greedy and ruthless character was simply not a good way to enjoy the game, since many quests required to selflessly agree to help some poor guys, or to do it for a symbolic amount of gold. Quite often, the quest had a great hidden reward in it and the meta-playing player would guess it, but in order to role-play his character he couldn't accept. Or he had to give up role-playing in exchange of a tiny bit of optimization.

That's why I'm wondering : will Runemaster give evil characters their lot of specific options and quests ? So that they still offer as much of the game as good characters do, while still feeling different and interesting ? I mean, not the classical sellswords quests such as : "go slaughter those guys who won't repay their debts."



Anyway, keep on the good work Pdox :)
 

SolSara

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I would say it would be like this: as a Thrifty person, you might ask for more gold (in order to buy more troops...) and your reward would be more gold but less reputation than what an Honest person would get. So Thrifty: 20 gold, 10 reputation, while Honest: 10 gold, 15 reputation. Some races would applaud you being Thrifty and others would think that it is despicable.
 

Magean

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Basically, with evil I meant deceitful and thrifty. Selfish, you know.
 

Mountain Man

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I think Dragon Age: Origins provides a good benchmark here. There is no good or evil slider in the game, and you can actually play a fairly ruthless character without having to be "stupid evil" (i.e. "I have no reason to kill you, but I'm going to do it anyway just so I can earn +5 to my evil stat.").
 

Colombo

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I think Dragon Age: Origins provides a good benchmark here. There is no good or evil slider in the game, and you can actually play a fairly ruthless character without having to be "stupid evil" (i.e. "I have no reason to kill you, but I'm going to do it anyway just so I can earn +5 to my evil stat.").

Well, the happiness you get from slaughtering everyone and even those guys enemy sends to you is nice, isn't it?
Eg. in baldur's gate the most stupid was the infinite number of flaming fists spawning every few steps. One could defeat one, two... but then...
 

Tiaexz

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I think SWTOR explored the possibility of being morally 'wrong' in ways you could actually agree with.

Such as, there are a bunch of lovers who want to escape and lead a new life away from the Jedi. You can dob them in to the authorities for the 'good' or assist them for the 'bad'. Though in KOTOR (earlier series game), it was "Be utter-douchebag" or "Act normal" sort of level. A parody of it would be: "Will you accept our assistance against the bad guy* tm?" options: "Accept" or "Punch him"
 

Darkath

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Well, the happiness you get from slaughtering everyone and even those guys enemy sends to you is nice, isn't it?
Eg. in baldur's gate the most stupid was the infinite number of flaming fists spawning every few steps. One could defeat one, two... but then...

"I serve the flaming fist !"
"I serve the flam-
"I -
"I -
"I serve the flaming fist !"

Oh such nightmares.
 

Jia Xu

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There is no evil or good, there is only power and your own desires.

I understand your point, but you could have at least acknowledged that the word evil was in quotation marks and responded to the context of the question. Just saying. I'm not 100% sure, but "evil" in this case may refer to kicking babies and stealing candy from magical Norse puppies. (Or maybe it's the other way around!)

So the question remains that if you're "evil," just a huge jerk to everyone at every opportunity, will the game acknowledge that in some special, minor way? Maybe a quest where all of the factions temporarily stop hating each other to make an attempt to shut you down. If the game doesn't already have something like that, it might be worth looking into if there's time left over before the release. My favourite part of purposely making really bad choices in RPGs is the horrific (and challenging) consequences. :p
 

Abnwtwtud

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I understand your point, but you could have at least acknowledged that the word evil was in quotation marks and responded to the context of the question. Just saying. I'm not 100% sure, but "evil" in this case may refer to kicking babies and stealing candy from magical Norse puppies. (Or maybe it's the other way around!)

So the question remains that if you're "evil," just a huge jerk to everyone at every opportunity, will the game acknowledge that in some special, minor way? Maybe a quest where all of the factions temporarily stop hating each other to make an attempt to shut you down. If the game doesn't already have something like that, it might be worth looking into if there's time left over before the release. My favourite part of purposely making really bad choices in RPGs is the horrific (and challenging) consequences. :p

Evil is a bit of a vague terminology. For example, wholesale slaughter of elves would likely be viewed as a "good" action by most people. On the other hand, some deviants may view this as "evil." See the difference of opinion? Personally I'd prefer if the player isn't penalized for the type of morality they express. What you're proposing is somewhat along those lines, and I think it'd be more interesting if each community is more interested in what you've done to them, and not whether or not you're carrying a carriage full of elf skulls.
 

magritte2

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Evil is a bit of a vague terminology. For example, wholesale slaughter of elves would likely be viewed as a "good" action by most people. On the other hand, some deviants may view this as "evil." See the difference of opinion? Personally I'd prefer if the player isn't penalized for the type of morality they express. What you're proposing is somewhat along those lines, and I think it'd be more interesting if each community is more interested in what you've done to them, and not whether or not you're carrying a carriage full of elf skulls.

A system similar to Fallout: New Vegas where you have a different reputation with each faction would seem appropriate for Runemaster.
 

Abnwtwtud

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A system similar to Fallout: New Vegas where you have a different reputation with each faction would seem appropriate for Runemaster.

Well seeing as they've only really acknowledged two "factions" at this point, I suspect that more likely it'll be just based on different communities. Hopefully with the option to burn any (elf) communities to the ground that irritate you.
 

InnocentIII

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There is no evil or good, there is only power and your own desires.

Is "power and your own desires" really a recipe for good? Galadriel didn't think so, and she even had that glowy "I'm soooo good" backlit, soft focus working for her. I'm looking forward to the game, and I wish you luck with your "grey" intentions, but it's gonna be pretty tough to sell Ragnarok as morally neutral.
 

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Is "power and your own desires" really a recipe for good? Galadriel didn't think so, and she even had that glowy "I'm soooo good" backlit, soft focus working for her. I'm looking forward to the game, and I wish you luck with your "grey" intentions, but it's gonna be pretty tough to sell Ragnarok as morally neutral.

FTL is morally neutral, and it could be considered an RPG. A game wherein you assign your own morality is by far the best sort of game, rather than a binary good/evil setup.
 

Thure

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Is "power and your own desires" really a recipe for good? Galadriel didn't think so, and she even had that glowy "I'm soooo good" backlit, soft focus working for her. I'm looking forward to the game, and I wish you luck with your "grey" intentions, but it's gonna be pretty tough to sell Ragnarok as morally neutral.

Eventually it's not morally neutral... But everyone could watch it on there own way. But at least it's not good or evil. It's about stability and change. Conservatism and radicalism if you want political terms.

A good exemple for a similiar thing would be the French revolutions. The fraction of the king want everything to stay in the same order as it workedfor the last hundred years. The people want a new order with more rights and power for them. And even the revolutionaries of the French Revolution killed people. So... Is the French revolution evil? Or is it good? Or nothing? I think it depends on the perspective. Both fractions saw themself as the good ones and the others as the evil ones.

The same with Ragnarok. Some of the races (Dark Elves, Trolls and Giant) want a new world order with more rights and power for themself because they have bad chances in this world order. So they want to change the world radically. Even if they have to kill other people for this. The other races just want to stay in the current order. Which one of them would you call good or evil?
 

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Eventually it's not morally neutral... But everyone could watch it on there own way. But at least it's not good or evil. It's about stability and change. Conservatism and radicalism if you want political terms.

A good exemple for a similiar thing would be the French revolutions. The fraction of the king want everything to stay in the same order as it workedfor the last hundred years. The people want a new order with more rights and power for them. And even the revolutionaries of the French Revolution killed people. So... Is the French revolution evil? Or is it good? Or nothing? I think it depends on the perspective. Both fractions saw themself as the good ones and the others as the evil ones.

The same with Ragnarok. Some of the races (Dark Elves, Trolls and Giant) want a new world order with more rights and power for themself because they have bad chances in this world order. So they want to change the world radically. Even if they have to kill other people for this. The other races just want to stay in the current order. Which one of them would you call good or evil?

I could not have written that better myself :)
 

Tiaexz

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Is there a book or a website which goes into depth about Norse Mythology which anyone would recommend? I know a lot from media, stories, and myths when I was younger, but in those, elves/trolls/dwarves didn't play a big part so I don't really know the context of those. The closest I can think of is 'Skyrim'.
 

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A good example for a similar thing would be the French revolutions. The fraction of the king want everything to stay in the same order as it worked for the last hundred years. The people want a new order with more rights and power for them. And even the revolutionaries of the French Revolution killed people. So... Is the French revolution evil? Or is it good? Or nothing? I think it depends on the perspective. Both fractions saw themselves as the good ones and the others as the evil ones.

If those in agreement equate the French Revolution with Loki et al, I think this makes my point rather than refutes it. My point being that the "it's all neutral" philosophy is a tough sell to actual players, who are going to equate the side intent on destroying everything with evil, can't think why. BTW I'm not saying change the game in any way at all (I like fighting evil)(maybe they should include a mission to prevent the beheading of Lavoisier). I'm merely suggesting that PDS maintain realistic expectations about how players will perceive the two sides.

The same with Ragnarok. Some of the races (Dark Elves, Trolls and Giant) want a new world order with more rights and power for themselves because they have bad chances in this world order. So they want to change the world radically. Even if they have to kill other people for this. The other races just want to stay in the current order. Which one of them would you call good or evil?

Let's imagine the game set in Malmo and see how long it takes everyone to figure that one out. "I want more power and I'll kill anyone I have to for it" is just standard, traditional evil, even down the the rationalizations.
 
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