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21oliver

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I always get confused a bit when guys talk about IC runs... I myself will set a specific amount as my goal (base 200, base 250 etc...). Are you referring to building as much as you can at one time, but then how do you determine your 2nd or 3rd run? For example the consensus seems to have been a 200-250 base for the Soviet Union. a 200 base means 39 IC (they start off at 161 base) to produce. I myself queue them up right from the start, not sure how you would determine how many runs it comes out to. Do you guys cook practicals for IC? airbases? infra? etc... I have been for some time, just trying to hear some different opinions.
 

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When I intend to seriously build IC (as opposed to just making one small run to tweak my base a little, say as Germany) I set a target base IC level. How many build runs this entails depends on several factors, the two most important ones being to make sure I leave enough free IC to handle early time-sensitive builds and/or practical cooking in other areas, and to make sure my IC whoring is completed in time to be of use for my primary unit building/upgrading push in the last year or two before I expect hostilities to begin.

If I am going to be doing multiple runs (3+ iterations) then I usually do cook the construction practical a bit, usually with just a moderate amount of stuff that suits my larger war strategy, e.g. airbases to support my airforce plans, coastal forts on key forward naval bases, etc. When I do this the goal is mainly just to use builds I plan to do anyway in such a way as to keep construction practical steady or slightly rising in the long spans between queueing of parallel IC runs and their completion. The bulk of my practical gains in construction will come in big gulps as each parallel run finishes, so the cooking via base building and the like is really just "simmering".
 

Kovax

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I find it very helpful to start a couple of airbase and port upgrades that I'm going to make anyway, so they give me a small amount of Practical boost shortly before the factories are done building. I also build enough "other" stuff to at least warm the Practicals for Infantry, Artillery, Armor, and Light Aircraft. Generally, I'll put one or two of those new factories at the bottom of the list, so they're getting partial or no production progress for a week or so, and rotate them so all but 2 end up delayed by varying amounts. The ideal is to have your airbases complete up a month before the IC, to offset the Practical decay and bring the completion date of the factories back on or ahead of schedule, have 2 factories complete roughly on schedule, and then the next pair of factories that are a week or so behind the first complete the following day due to Practical gain, with the rest coming up behind in rapid succession.

I've seen over a 2-month difference in completion times between the beginning of a run and the end....and I'm not even being extreme about it, that's with just 8-16 IC. With 20+ IC, it's a bigger change. A second run will give you even shorter build times for the last of those units.

The first 1-2 factories will provide a SIGNIFICANT increase in Construction Practical, so the rest of the run will finish several days or even weeks ahead of time. If you started them all at Jan.1, 1936 and kept them at the top of the que, then you just threw away those last weeks of production. I try to rotate all but around 2 of the factories to the "iffy" bottom of the que at some point, so their completion dates gradually fall on various dates about 2-6 weeks behind the first couple of factories. When the first pair of factories complete on schedule, the stragglers all seem to finish either the next day or only a few days later, thanks to the huge boost in Construction Practical. If you were putting full production into all of them during that entire 11 months, then those last 2 weeks worth of IC were totally wasted, because you could have used it toward other units and still completed the factories. You don't need to stagger the starting dates as long as you can divert production days to delay and stagger the ending dates.

Ultimately, as GER, the additional IC versus the cost of building it will not significantly affect Poland/France one way or the other, assuming two runs, since the time for it to pay itself off happens to occur in late '39 or beginning of '40. It WILL provide a significant IC advantage by the time you launch Barbarossa. As the SU or US, NOT building IC is silly, because you have the resources to fuel it, and you're not likely to be in the middle of a life-or-death fight until long after the additional IC has more than paid for itself, whereas building the military units sooner means that you have to pay to supply and upgrade them over and over during that entire time.

Let's see, tough choice:
...I can use my base IC to build 100 military units, and use that same IC to supply and upgrade them for up to 4 years until I need them.
...or I can use my base IC to build another 100 IC, and then use both the new and old IC to build the same 100 military units and about 20 more, all current, shortly before I need them in about 4 years.
 

lpremus

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as Germany, how do you get around the resource depletion? As the game progresses the Rares get low and USSR starts giving less and less. can't trade USA or UK due to neutrality and convoys getting crushed.
 

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Before war, you can get plenty of Rares in trade from Italy, Netherlands, US, and SU, provided you start stockpiling in Jan. 1936. After war starts, you can pillage some when you take FRA/NET/BEL/etc., but you're essentially on a timer to conquer the SU before Rares run out, since ITA can't put more than a small dent in your appetite for them.
 

LarryLeica

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Each of the majors has certain limits to the IC they can build based on the resources available to them within their own territory. I mostly play USSR, but have started to dabble in the other majors...

USSR can maintain around 300 base IC, if you invest some research into all the refining techs and preferably keep them at least one level ahead as well as researching Industrial Efficiency. It's not always useful to research the Industrial Production tech beyond 1941/2 as it just eats more resources and you want faster/leaner builds by this point not more, but you can micro this by purposely reducing your sliders so you have a surplus of IC.

Germany has a serious issue with rares, but also metal gets very scarce once war starts, so I tend not to go over 200 base, and then just add in more from conquests. You can actually not build any at all, and just concentrate on your techs and keep pumping out units.

The USA can go well over 500 if you factor in trading too, the most I've had as the USA is 650+ base IC, but needed to trade for metal and rares.

Japan and Italy are not really worth more than 100 base, and the UK, provided you can maintain the convoys is in a similar situation to Germany, but again it's questionable whether you should build IC or units as you only have 3 years to prepare.

Generally I will queue all of the IC I want to build, so if as the USSR I'm aiming for 300, I'll queue 139 straight away. However, I will build around 10 airfields, either expanding existing ones or new ones, and some infrastructure at the top of the queue. TIP: You can build militia in place of infantry with specialised training active, then upgrade them to motor/infantry later (also do this with cavalry), you should be using the minimal training then switch to specialised when you mobilise trick too, with a volunteer army.
 

KyrionMyrthar

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USA planning: I usually have airfields/naval base/infra upgrades at the top, and then just keep building IC. As one finishes, I add another. This does lead to staggered builds over the course of time, but it's worth it.

I've hit 700 IC in TFH, and in HPP, I've been well over 900. Seeing the USA firing on that much IC is a thing of beauty, especially if you get into a slugging match with the Soviets.
 

lpremus

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I never play usa but man that 500 IC base seems tempting to play...no wonder they can build so much stuff. I really hate sitting there watching the build queue
 

21oliver

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You can build militia in place of infantry with specialised training active, then upgrade them to motor/infantry later (also do this with cavalry), you should be using the minimal training then switch to specialised when you mobilise trick too, with a volunteer army.

I never thought to do that, nice ty!

I will build around 10 airfields,

I think ive been building too many and although it greatly increased my practical i wonder if it slowed down the overall IC completion?
 

lpremus

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measure twice; cut once applies to the militia idea...why build them when you have infantry and then turn around and upgrade them.

Another side note is if you want better militia you have to research 4 techs for them. and you are already researching 4 techs for infantry. Why bother with militia?

Same can be said about Calvary vs. Motorized units. calvary tech get no benefit infantry were as Motorized does.
 

Pro_Consul

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measure twice; cut once applies to the militia idea...why build them when you have infantry and then turn around and upgrade them.

Another side note is if you want better militia you have to research 4 techs for them. and you are already researching 4 techs for infantry. Why bother with militia?

I am with this, at least halfway. If I am not going to actually use MIL, then I don't bother to build them in the first place. They definitely do have some uses, however, so sometimes I have them in the mix. But when I do use both MIL and INF in the same overall build scheme, then the MIL are functioning at least partly as training cadres, getting unit experience in backwater fighting and the like, and then upgrading to specialized units like MTN, PAR, MOT, MEC, etc.
 

misterbean

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measure twice; cut once applies to the militia idea...why build them when you have infantry and then turn around and upgrade them.

Another side note is if you want better militia you have to research 4 techs for them. and you are already researching 4 techs for infantry. Why bother with militia?

Same can be said about Calvary vs. Motorized units. calvary tech get no benefit infantry were as Motorized does.

It's a bit of a cheesy trick: build MIL and CAV using the cheapest training laws, then upgrade them to INF and MOT this becomes cheaper than actually building them as INF because of how the practical system works.
 

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I suppose you're waiting for me to chime in, since I'm Mr. I. C. Builder. :)

As the Soviets, I do complete IC runs. Some folks warm practicals by building 90% IC, and throwing a few planes and tanks in the queue, but to be perfectly honest, I'm not the best at warming practicals (unless we're talking about naval builds). If I desire airfields or ports, they get thrown in, too. But to be perfectly honest, at the scale of IC we're talking about building, the practicals from these side builds are small potatoes compared to the practicals I get after the first run finishes. More on that in a second.

I'll literally empty the entire build queue on January first, and fill it with IC past the point it can hold, with a +1 on all the IC I build. My assumption is that in 1937, I'll run the Purge and get better laws, so more IC will be forthcoming. I will also sometimes add a partial 3rd run; it's during this third run that any brigades that need upgrading or round-out brigades for existing divisions start building (all those stupid divisions that need extra ART after I spend 12 hours reorganizing the entire Red Army...).

Keep something in mind: the tech of the Red Army and aircraft sucks. I mean it's bad. So building significant troops and planes before 1939 is a waste anyway. But her industry techs suck, too. They are terrible. The good news is that building a metric ton of IC helps solve both problems. Once the first round of IC is finished, construction practicals are high enough to make IC tech research fly by. When you start building round out brigades or upgrading existing brigades, that generates the practicals you need for research, so the divisions and planes being built in late 40 are at least at respectable tech levels. Of course, you refuse to let existing units upgrade until you hit decent tech levels or upgrade the brigades (remember, upgrading an INF to MOT also upgrades its weapons) so you can get units up to speed on tech as efficiently as possible.

Those better at warming practicals during IC runs can do an even better job than I can teching up the Red Army. However, let me note for the record that practicals = research speed. So, even with Soviet leadership deficiencies and low techs, producing enough "stuff" will help fix this problem. Not with doctrines, but you need combat experience for that anyway.

I'll also note for the record that if you can just avoid losing 500,000 men in encirclements in Barbarossa, German advantages in tech will be worthless in comparison to your massive advantage in sheer number of tanks and planes.