Questions from a new player

[unmerged(116276)]

I tried playing Victoria a year ago, but didn't realise the manual could be downloaded from gamersgate. This led to me quitting the game pretty early as I had no idea how stuff worked. However, I've now had a good read of the manual, have patched to the 1.4 version, and am determined to start again. There'll probably be a lot of questions, but for now I have two:

- In the manual, it says maintanance affects combat ability. Would I be right in thinking that during peacetime there's no reason to fund this at all?

- The manual also says that POP's will move to where there is work. It also says that RGO's will not produce at maximum output unless there are enough workers to be assigned to them. With that in mind should I expand RGO's in areas where there are lots of workers, or should I just expand in any area I like and not worry, as the workers will move there to find work on their own accord?

 

[unmerged(106891)]

I tried playing Victoria a year ago, but didn't realise the manual could be downloaded from gamersgate. This led to me quitting the game pretty early as I had no idea how stuff worked. However, I've now had a good read of the manual, have patched to the 1.4 version, and am determined to start again. There'll probably be a lot of questions, but for now I have two:

- In the manual, it says maintanance affects combat ability. Would I be right in thinking that during peacetime there's no reason to fund this at all?

- The manual also says that POP's will move to where there is work. It also says that RGO's will not produce at maximum output unless there are enough workers to be assigned to them. With that in mind should I expand RGO's in areas where there are lots of workers, or should I just expand in any area I like and not worry, as the workers will move there to find work on their own accord?

For your first question, have a look through the 'What sort of army maintenance style do you prefer?' thread that has been recently up here. People play differently. At the end of the day though... it is the old 'guns vs. butter' debate; and you can afford a lot more 'butter' if you underfund the army/navy (not the defense slider!!) maintenance sliders. This reduces the sizes of your standing forces, but they can be reinforced when you increase maintenance again. The defense slider controls what rate you gain manpower, leadership and prestige, so it is a good idea to keep that high regardless. Also, having a reduced size standing army still keeps your military score as it is.

For your second question:
Sometimes the engine is a bit slow when it comes to getting POPs in certain provinces. Yes POPs will go to provinces where there are free spaces, but this depends on other factors, such as being unemployed themselves, etc... Generally I expand the RGO's which have higher values, and then try and force POPs to move to that province by various means.

Also... I'd recommend getting the Revolutions expansion for the game - it greatly improves many areas of the game.

 

[unmerged(116276)]

Would Japan be a good starting country for a beginner? It's nice and far out of the way of the main combat, and I don't think I'll be able to play a great power right from the start. Can stuff be done with Japan, or is it too backward to take part in any conquest? (I just want a few limited wars to test my skills, perhaps a conflict with China later on to get some territory, or trying to attack the Philipenes).

The combat system sure is harder to follow than HoI is. Still trying to figure it out so don't want to be thrown into a great war just yet. 20 years or so of industrialising Japan then attacking a couple of my neighbours sound viable?

 

[unmerged(59736)]

The best land to begin with is Sweden. They have many possibilities and are easy tho handle. But USA is also a good country because it can expand its industry and military easy and doesn't have any real enemies.

Japan is land where no whan can reach you - but you are uncivlezed and because of that your economi is not so good - but in 1867 (i think) will you get an event that makes japan a westernied country. An you can then conquer china if you want

 

[unmerged(106891)]

Brazil and Belgium are often suggested extensively to begin learning how to play the game as. I've also heard Uruguay suggested a lot - 3 provinces with no major wars at all... lets you get your head round the economic and political systems in the game. I wouldn't recommend learning how to play as an uncivilized nation - they have many disadvantages to civilized countries in-game.

 

[A_Dane]

personally i just got victoria & revolutions a few days ago, and ive been fiffling with belgium, and i can recommend that, apart from the short war at the beginning which you should win quite easily, from then on i just industrialized my nation and ended up as one of the great powers. then prussia pwned my ass. but now ive went back to an earlier safe and now im trying out the warfare part of the game vs netherlands

 

[unmerged(116276)]

I have finally finished reading the manual, so am about to start my first game. Just a few questions before I begin:

- I understand that to claim a colony you build trading posts/forts/coal stations and drive all other troops out then the colony is yours. Later on in the manual, it says that you can grant the colony a dominion status if the colonialists outnumber the natives. Does this form a completely new country, that is out of your control? If so, when would you ever wish to make a colony a dominion...as surely it would just undo all the hard work that was spent in claiming the colony?

- Is it possible for uncivilised nations to become civilised if they become developed enough? I'm planning to start off with Belgium like someone else suggested, but later on in the game, when I'm more experienced and ready to try harder nations, is it possible for an uncivilised nation to become civilised? If it helps I have Victoria 1.4 (but haven't downloaded the revolutions extra). If not, exactly how much of a penalty do uncivilised nations get compared to civilised ones, as the manual did not mention this at all (beyond saying that great powers get certain bonuses like extra diplomatic moves).

- How large should my stockpiles of resources be before going into war, as Belgium? I realise I start off at war with the Netherlands but hopefully will be able to defeat them. After the Netherlands, what's the best course of action to take? I probably won't be able to reach their Far Eastern provinces, assuming ships have a range limit. If they don't, it's still going to take some time and I wonder how valuble provinces thousands of miles away will be. Would trying to claim some African colonies be the most viable way to expand, or concentrate on fortifying Belgium.

Finally, I don't have a great knowledge of this time period (well I don't have any knowledge at all really!). I know Prussia/Germany will attack Belgium in 1914, but other than that, are there any other events that I should be concerned about?

 

[unmerged(106891)]

VickyWiki entry on becoming cvilized.

As for the point about making a dominion... I think you mean granting statehood. Granting statehood is possible when you either have cores on a province, if the colony is on the same continent as yourself, or if one of your national cultures is the majority in at least one province in that area. Granting statehood allows you to build factories there, and it allows you to create better quality military units from that area.

Before going to war I'd recommend maximizing your financial reserves mainly - particularly if you have a highly mobilized population... more of your POPs will turn into soldiers, meaning your production, and so money, go down.

Also, Germany won't go to war with Belgium in 1914 in an unmodded game... Paradox didn't put that in. I'd recommend upgrading to Revolutions so you can get some of the user made mods which have WW1 in, such as Wannabe Tatar's 'War of the Nations' mod, or CSABadass's 'Southern Revolutions' mod (which also has a more detailed American Civil War, and subsequent alternate history chains for if the CSA survives). Also, the Victoria Improvement Project (VIP) will be including WW1 hopefully by version 0.4 (0.3 is planned to be released at the end of the first quarter of 2009 I believe - plenty of time to get Revolutions for Christmas! ). VIP has a more detailed entire 19th century really, but I'd recommend getting to grips with the basics before trying that one out. See the VIP Sub-Forum for more information on VIP.

If I remember correctly, for Belgium in plain Vicky there weren't really that many events. That's why it is recommended as a starting nation - to get to grips with certain concepts of the game first.

 

[unmerged(116276)]

Well I loaded up and started fighting the Netherlands. I had occupied a few of their provinces (arlon plus something else) when the Treaty of London event fired and I lost all my conquests except for Arlon. The Netherlands also maintained an outpost in Luxemborg. So I went around to look for something else to conquer, and decided on the Congo. Put three of my units into the ships, sailed round there and landed. There were no troops in the Congo to kick out, so the time had come to build the four buildings needed to claim the Congo and expand my empire.

Unfortunately the mighty Belgium Empire was to be tricked, as a product called "steamer convoy" was needed to build the buildings. Trying to buy some on the world market was a failure, and Belgium couldn't produce any either! Therefore my colonial aspirations are not to be fufilled anytime soon, and I'm 25k in debt in the first year! (expanding the RGO's in Belgium cost a lot, plus a couple of railway improvements and wanting to buy lots of small arms and canned goods to increase my mobilisation pool didn't help the balance)

I'm going to download the Revolutions patch tommorow, but until then...anyone got any ideas on how to get some steamer convoy? I need this colony so little Belgium can become a world player. :rofl:

 

[unmerged(116276)]

OK I managed to get the steamer convoy through trade eventually. Alas, the debt spiralled up to 50k, and even setting social spending/education to 0, and having the highest taxces in every province, and trading away all my stockpiles, I still can't pay it off.

Going to download revolutions now, and I'll start a new game then, and try not to get in so much debt!

One thing I did notice however- when I built my factories and expanded my RGO's, there were not enough workers to work in the factories or the RGO's. I couldn't convert any as 1) I didn't have the cash or the items and 2) Most of them were already assigned at a factory anyway. Because of this I was always getting 3/10 workers on an RGO, or 2/5 workers in a factory.

With this in mind, and given Belgium's low population, is there really any point in expanding the RGO's? I can appreciate some factories may have to be built in the interests of becoming self sufficient, but what use is too many if you don't have enough POP's to put in them all? Wouldn't it be better to build a large military early on in order to gain resources and population through aggressive play? With the money saved from not investing in RGO's or factories, I could use to build the 4 buildings required to claim a colony, while using my large military to cut down the Netherlands after the peace deal expires, and thus gain the population andresources Belgium needs.

Thoughts?

 

[OHgamer]

only expand RGOs if they are close to full (and you have POPs about to split due to size). Otherwise there is no reason to expand RGOs. Expansion does not increase production, technological research to improve efiiciency and investment in improved infrastructure however, does.

as for expansion, it really depends, can you as Belgium hold off other nations if you get involved in war given your small population? Less developed nations can be fruitful additions to the empire, but if you get too aggressive and build up too much badboy from annexing smaller, less developed nations, you might soon have to deal with the French or Prussians/Germans who decide you are getting too big for your "proper" position in the balance of power in the world.

Plus remember that every POP you make as a soldier is not available for economic production in an RGO or factory. You can of course increase your mobilization pool so that you can have reserve units at times of war, but they will be of lower quality than full army units, and you lose their economic production when they are mobilized. Unless you build up a significant bankroll before declaring war, you might very well find yourself in a war and ever increasing debt as your nation does not produce the income that can cover the cost of maintaining armies and navies in the field.

And of course your POPs may become weary of war, and if their war exhaustion rises too much, they might turn militant in their desire to end the war by removing the government that got the nation into war in the first place.

Oh and note in Revolutions colonization received an overhaul, and now requires having specific technological know-how to be able to colonize specific provinces based on their life rating.

 

[OHgamer]

Best piece of advice i can give - DON'T RUSH THINGS. Victoria is a marathon, not a sprint.

You only need to be number 1 at the last day of the game. You do not need to become the biggest economy or most powerful military as fast as you can. Build your strength slowly, within the limits of what your POPs will accept without building up militancy, and establish for yourself a solid internal base first from which you can then expand your power upon the world in the latter part of the game.

 

[unmerged(106891)]

No I wouldn't have thought there was any point expanding RGO's until you had so many free farmer or labourer POPs in that province to occupy the new slots. Even then I'd still consider putting some of that excess into factories early on in the game (gradually shifting the majority of the population into the factories). Also worth noting is that clerks give a benefit to factory production, although you can only have a clerk POP in a factory if there is a craftsmen POP there with them.

Also, for your first post out of the two, you don't need to send any soldiers into the congo, or any potential colony, unless that area is owned and you have to fight off the owner. Just build your colonial building there.

As for expansion... well as small Belgium there isn't really anywhere to expand into (except maybe the Netherlands perhaps??). I'd just try and sort your economy out so you're a major industrial power, and when the time comes, seek your colonial empire in Africa and elsewhere. You won't really even need a large military for that. Belgium is unlikely to have many (if any) wars, so I wouldn;t worry with your military too much, maybe just keep increasing your mobilization pool every now and then??

 

[unmerged(106891)]

Best piece of advice i can give - DON'T RUSH THINGS. Victoria is a marathon, not a sprint.

You only need to be number 1 at the last day of the game. You do not need to become the biggest economy or most powerful military as fast as you can. Build your strength slowly, within the limits of what your POPs will accept without building up militancy, and establish for yourself a solid internal base first from which you can then expand your power upon the world in the latter part of the game.

Yeah! What he said!

 

[unmerged(116276)]

So basically as Belgium it would probably be best to improve the railway lines rather than build lots of factories.

I was only thinking of going after the Netherlands really (maybe Denmark later as well...) and some African colonies. Maybe ally with Prussia and try and take down France when WW1 starts as well, with Prussia's help of course. Nothing too ambitious, and I'd prefer to build up a stronger economy anyway.

How well does the AI handle the two front issue? In Hearts of Iron, when the enemy gets a 2nd front on the AI it generally can't cope and collapses within a few months. Is it the same here, or will Prussia/Austria be able to fight on both fronts? (France/Russia) Just that there's no point allying with Prussia if they generally get steamrolled in 1914, leaving me to face France alone!

Would quite like to be able to make a decent high value good as well, and export it to the surrounding nations to get my money higher. Ah well, I'd best read the revolutions manual now to see what's changed.

 

[jonti-h]

You don't want to build too many factories too quickly, it gets people annoyed and it does your economy no good.

The AI is not great, but not too bad either - I see you mention 1914, but there is no scripted WW1, wars break out any time.

 

[unmerged(116276)]

So I loaded up as Belgium, played the first few years out, things are going nicely. The railroads have been upgraded to the maximum my technology will allow, and I don't haven't taken out a loan either. However, my population still stubbornly refuses to expand! While all my factories have the full amount of workers (beyond a small arms factory which I've closed for the time being as it was losing £16 a day, for some reason! ). Unfortunately due to my government I can't build factories myself...though the capitalists are building a glass factory! I have a revolt risk in 4 provinces due to having high taxes for a while meaning my POP's couldn't get all the goods they wanted. When I highlight the provinces it says their militancy is 3.85 (which is lower than what it was at the start of the game) but consciousness is 7!

Now I know militancy is a bad thing. But is consciousness? The manual says that it makes the POP's more inclined to vote for a party that truly represents their interests. But given 73% of the population is liberal, with 27% been conservative, does consciousness really matter? It's not like any communists are about to take over as no one shares their ideology. The liberals got into power during the last election (I'm up to August 1840 now) so surely with higher consciousness, all that will happen is they get in power again?

Is consciousness something I should be worried about, or is it only dangerous when combined with militancy?

Anyway I'm not sure what to do now. I can't expand the railroads further, and I can't build factories, which means there's not much else to do with regard to the economy. I don't have the technology to claim colonies either. I guess that leaves one option left- gear up for war vs the Netherlands.

 

[Orm]

So I loaded up as Belgium, played the first few years out, things are going nicely. The railroads have been upgraded to the maximum my technology will allow, and I don't haven't taken out a loan either. However, my population still stubbornly refuses to expand! While all my factories have the full amount of workers (beyond a small arms factory which I've closed for the time being as it was losing £16 a day, for some reason! ). Unfortunately due to my government I can't build factories myself...though the capitalists are building a glass factory! I have a revolt risk in 4 provinces due to having high taxes for a while meaning my POP's couldn't get all the goods they wanted. When I highlight the provinces it says their militancy is 3.85 (which is lower than what it was at the start of the game) but consciousness is 7!

If you're looking at just the average militancy of the province that doesn't really say much. Revolt risk is tied to the militancy of each individual POP and IIRC the province revolt risk is just the sum of revolt risks for the POPs in it.

Now I know militancy is a bad thing. But is consciousness? The manual says that it makes the POP's more inclined to vote for a party that truly represents their interests. But given 73% of the population is liberal, with 27% been conservative, does consciousness really matter? It's not like any communists are about to take over as no one shares their ideology. The liberals got into power during the last election (I'm up to August 1840 now) so surely with higher consciousness, all that will happen is they get in power again?

Is consciousness something I should be worried about, or is it only dangerous when combined with militancy?

As a democracy or constitutional monarchy consciousness is not such a bad thing in general. A high average consciousness leads to faster rise in Plurality, which in a democracy will give a negative modifier to militancy, in a con mon it will have no effect, but in any other form it will give a positive modifier to militancy.

 

[Meanmanturbo]

If you're looking at just the average militancy of the province that doesn't really say much. Revolt risk is tied to the militancy of each individual POP and IIRC the province revolt risk is just the sum of revolt risks for the POPs in it.



As a democracy or constitutional monarchy consciousness is not such a bad thing in general. A high average consciousness leads to faster rise in Plurality, which in a democracy will give a negative modifier to militancy, in a con mon it will have no effect, but in any other form it will give a positive modifier to militancy.

Also, a positive modifier on militancy is negative

 

[Jingles]

Although a bit of a tangent, I highly suggest getting Victoria: Revolutions, and then subsequently using the VIP:R mod for it. Trust me, you won't even miss Vicky 1.4