Questions about Japan

[Korsjan Rīkis]

I have never had a run in Japan and I lack any knowledge about the Shogunate and Daimyo mechanics (the main reason, why I haven't dared to play there yet). I like to role play my campaigns and keep them at least somewhat realistic.

First of all, which tag am I supposed to choose to unite and form Japan? Which tag united Japan in real life? OK, it was Tokugawa, but it stayed as Tokugawa and didn't become Japan, as we know it, if I understand it correctly. And if you look at the other start dates, ''united Japan'' is Tokugawa instead of Japan. With which clan am I supposed to form Japan then? I'm not looking for the easiest tag, but the one that is supposed to do it. That way I can do more runs with other tags in the region with more limited goals and have them more unique instead of becoming Japan in every single game.

What happens if I annex the Shogun? Can I become Shogun myself, for example, as Tokugawa?

How does the Shogunate work, similarly like HRE? If I choose to stay super tall and don't even conquer all of Japan, can other clans start blobbing and overthrow me somehow?

If I stay as my starting clan instead of becoming Japan, what's the difference, besides new ambitions and ideas?

Oda looks like another cool tag, they apparently conquered like half of Japan, but then got stopped by Tokugawa, who finished the job.

I have 2400+ hours right now, but these questions make me sound like a noob lol.

 

[Kanem Bornu]

I'm no expert, but my understanding is that "Japan" existed through the whole timeline (and before), but is represented in game with the clans as subjects to the shogun instead of just being Japan with 100 different estates, or some other EU4 game mechanic. EU4 doesn't translate perfectly to the more complex system of feudal Japan.

It's more or less already united under Ashikaga at game start. which in real history the shogunate was dismantled by Oda, and then re-established by Tokugawa later.

So based on that, I would say if you want to do a historical Japan unification either stick with Ashikaga for a diplomatic playstyle or Tokugawa for a more traditional / conquesting sort of game.

Yes you become Shogun if you take Kyoto, and your daimyo subjects are allowed to declare war on each other for land. They will grow and they will try to overthrow you if they get more powerful, in the same way that regular vassals that you feed too much will become disloyal. You have several unique diplomatic options to deal with them, and you can diplomatically annex them.

If you stay as your daimyo and don't become shogun you basically have 2 options. Become and independent daimyo and break free from the shogunate entirely, or play the entire game as a vassal (until you're probably diplo annexed by the AI). Independent daimyo is its own government form on tier 1.

They cannot declare wars on non-daimyos. You can also release vassals in any area of the world and they are released as a new daimyo. So you can extend the daimyo system to the whole world if you really wanted to. It's a very unique system and quite fun. It also helps that some of the tags there have absurdly strong ideas- Oda's probably being the most notable.

 

[Romanix90]

Tokugawa is historical tag that managed to unite Japan under their banner. And it's not like that they said "Ok we're now Japan", no they pretty much stayed Tokugawa. However in this case you could pick them and unite Japan.

Another much easier aproach is to pick up Uesugi. If you're going for achievments they're probably in the easiest position. Having some 3-4 provinces with some realy nice ideas. I played as Uesugi and did manage to get 3 achievments.

And last one that i personaly find interesting is Otomo. Now their ideas pretty much gives you idea how you should play with them. In other words go Catholic. Japanese have Shintoism which enables you to convert to several other religions,including Buddhism and Confucianism. You could read on EU4Wiki on how Shintoism works. But in this case i do find Otomo interesting in order to play as Christian Japan.

In the pic bellow that's what i had done with Japan starting as Uesugi. Best of luck.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

Tokugawa is historical tag that managed to unite Japan under their banner. And it's not like that they said "Ok we're now Japan", no they pretty much stayed Tokugawa. However in this case you could pick them and unite Japan.

Another much easier aproach is to pick up Uesugi. If you're going for achievments they're probably in the easiest position. Having some 3-4 provinces with some realy nice ideas. I played as Uesugi and did manage to get 3 achievments.

And last one that i personaly find interesting is Otomo. Now their ideas pretty much gives you idea how you should play with them. In other words go Catholic. Japanese have Shintoism which enables you to convert to several other religions,including Buddhism and Confucianism. You could read on EU4Wiki on how Shintoism works. But in this case i do find Otomo interesting in order to play as Christian Japan.

In the pic bellow that's what i had done with Japan starting as Uesugi. Best of luck.

Ayyy, a semi ai Qing

I have never had a run in Japan and I lack any knowledge about the Shogunate and Daimyo mechanics (the main reason, why I haven't dared to play there yet). I like to role play my campaigns and keep them at least somewhat realistic.

First of all, which tag am I supposed to choose to unite and form Japan?

Any, can even go ashkiga and diplo annex everyone after being stuck in no cb war vs evenki

Which tag united Japan in real life?

Oda then tokuwaga then kinda hojo

OK, it was Tokugawa, but it stayed as Tokugawa and didn't become Japan, as we know it, if I understand it correctly

Because it stayed decentralised, forming Japan can make you lose the shogunate as now the emperor rules

. And if you look at the other start dates, ''united Japan'' is Tokugawa instead of Japan.

Start dates have kilwa and hormuz as portugese vassals, and a weird sicily in piedmonte during the war of spanish succession, dont rely on them to be accurate, especially as England never has Northumberland released

With which clan am I supposed to form Japan then? I'm not looking for the easiest tag, but the one that is supposed to do it. That way I can do more runs with other tags in the region with more limited goals and have them more unique instead of becoming Japan in every single game.

What happens if I annex the Shogun? Can I become Shogun myself, for example, as Tokugawa?

With mandate of heaven, if you take kyoto in a peace deal you become shogun and inherit all existing vasaals. The previous shogun and your allies are exempt iirc

How does the Shogunate work, similarly like HRE?

Yes basically like post privilegia, vassal swarm but you're super weak, so various Europe only mods reuse shogunate for either France or hre or England for some reason. One strat was WC as shogun because you can have as many vassals as you want without eating dip relations until you marry

If I choose to stay super tall and don't even conquer all of Japan, can other clans start blobbing and overthrow me somehow?

Yes, but if its i think ten provinces you get a cb to annex them. You can always just use the time they grow in to blob elsewhere like manchuria

If I stay as my starting clan instead of becoming Japan, what's the difference, besides new ambitions and ideas?

New missions, dont think theres any events

Oda looks like another cool tag, they apparently conquered like half of Japan, but then got stopped by Tokugawa, who finished the job.

Because nobunaga died and his heir got couped by tokuwaga

I have 2400+ hours right now, but these questions make me sound like a noob lol.

It happens

 

[Korsjan Rīkis]

OK, thanks for the answers, everyone! It was really helpful to understand what's going on in Japan and how the mechanics work.

So, if I want to form Japan I should either play as Ashikaga or Tokugawa.

I looked at the wiki about Ashikaga. The strategy is kind of cheesy, like AvengedK1ng mentioned, declare some random war or get dragged into one and then annex your vassals slowly. But if it's the only way, I guess I'll have to do it like this, too.

Tokugawa is historical tag that managed to unite Japan under their banner. And it's not like that they said "Ok we're now Japan", no they pretty much stayed Tokugawa. However in this case you could pick them and unite Japan.

Another much easier aproach is to pick up Uesugi. If you're going for achievments they're probably in the easiest position. Having some 3-4 provinces with some realy nice ideas. I played as Uesugi and did manage to get 3 achievments.

And last one that i personaly find interesting is Otomo. Now their ideas pretty much gives you idea how you should play with them. In other words go Catholic. Japanese have Shintoism which enables you to convert to several other religions,including Buddhism and Confucianism. You could read on EU4Wiki on how Shintoism works. But in this case i do find Otomo interesting in order to play as Christian Japan.

In the pic bellow that's what i had done with Japan starting as Uesugi. Best of luck.

That's a very beautiful Japan. I plan to do something very similar + colonies in Northwest America. I'm not sure about Manchuria yet, keep it as a vassal or annex it directly.

I can easily see 4 runs in Japan so far:

Ashikaga -> Japan - I unite Japan and become open to foreigners, because I would have a colonial empire in America and some expansion in mainland Asia.

Tokugawa - I take all of Japan and Korea and stay completely isolationist.

Oda - I take all of central Japan and possibly expand daimyos outside of Japan. Not sure if I should stay isolationist or not.

Otomo - Embrace Christianity, become open to foreigners and unite Southern Japan.


I'll most likely do my 1st run with Japan next week.

 

[Romanix90]

OK, thanks for the answers, everyone! It was really helpful to understand what's going on in Japan and how the mechanics work.

So, if I want to form Japan I should either play as Ashikaga or Tokugawa.

I looked at the wiki about Ashikaga. The strategy is kind of cheesy, like AvengedK1ng mentioned, declare some random war or get dragged into one and then annex your vassals slowly. But if it's the only way, I guess I'll have to do it like this, too.

That's a very beautiful Japan. I plan to do something very similar + colonies in Northwest America. I'm not sure about Manchuria yet, keep it as a vassal or annex it directly.

I can easily see 4 runs in Japan so far:

Ashikaga -> Japan - I unite Japan and become open to foreigners, because I would have a colonial empire in America and some expansion in mainland Asia.

Tokugawa - I take all of Japan and Korea and stay completely isolationist.

Oda - I take all of central Japan and possibly expand daimyos outside of Japan. Not sure if I should stay isolationist or not.

Otomo - Embrace Christianity, become open to foreigners and unite Southern Japan.


I'll most likely do my 1st run with Japan next week.

In my play i left Manchuria and rest of China alone. Instead i did colonize Taiwan with some other islands all the way to Hawaii. Didn't touch NA. But hey we all have different ways to play. What ever you want go for it and best of luck.

 

[Korsjan Rīkis]

In my play i left Manchuria and rest of China alone. Instead i did colonize Taiwan with some other islands all the way to Hawaii. Didn't touch NA. But hey we all have different ways to play. What ever you want go for it and best of luck.

Thanks! Yeah, I'll do that in my Tokugawa run (whenever I'll have it), just take all of Japan, Ainu and Korea. Maybe Taiwan, but nothing more.
While in Ashikaga -> Japan run, I'll take all of the above, most of Manchuria, some coastal provinces in China, some islands in the Pacific and have colonial nations in Alaska and California.

 

[Slow Bathroom]

I always play as Oda since they are the ones who did most of the work uniting Japan. I just pretend Nobunaga was born about 100 years early and didn't get killed before he was finished. When you're playing as a Daimyou make sure you keep in mind that the Shogun can attack you if you have 10 or more provinces, so don't get more than 9 until you're strong enough to beat him.

 

[Romanix90]

Also one last thing. Before you declare on Ashikaga make some Daimyos allies. That way Shogun will lose more of it's vassals and they'll instantly get independence. Also their armies will be forced to fight your allies so they may provide some distraction. And watch out Shogun closely cause they might start integrating your allies.

 

[Korsjan Rīkis]

So I started a campaign with Tokugawa now. At 1st I tried with Ashigaka and played for 15 years, got some grasp of the mechanics, but wasn't too sure about the direction I should like to go with them, so went with Tokugawa instead.

It's 1461 and so far, I have been pretty successful, I have 8 provinces now (Mikawa, Suruga, Owara, Ise, Mino, Echizen, Echigo and Musashi) and I have spawned Renaissance already. And yeah, Ashigaka recently annexed Tsuitsui.

 

[Korsjan Rīkis]

Oh, no. I grew over 10 provinces in size and Ashigaka declared war on me with all other daimyos. How to avoid that? I'm reloading of course.
OK, it was due to my aggressive expansion, took a bit less provinces and it was all fine.

 

[Romanix90]

Oh, no. I grew over 10 provinces in size and Ashigaka declared war on me with all other daimyos. How to avoid that? I'm reloading of course.
OK, it was due to my aggressive expansion, took a bit less provinces and it was all fine.

What Ideas did you pick. Wory not, just wait a little bit until Ashikaga integrate several Daimyos that aren't your allies. If something goes wrong have a back up save just in case. Don't forget to have maximal number of allies.

 

[Korsjan Rīkis]

What Ideas did you pick. Wory not, just wait a little bit until Ashikaga integrate several Daimyos that aren't your allies. If something goes wrong have a back up save just in case. Don't forget to have maximal number of allies.

Yeah, they annexed some small daimyos all over Japan. In the meantime, I did the same, I took out the rest of OMP daimyos who weren't my allies, it greatly reduced their power and made us even in strength. Then I turned against them and took Kyoto, but I didn't declare independence, so all my allies ended up as daimyos under me, instead of becoming independent. Right now I have united all of Japan and have taken Southern Korea already.

 

[JangoBunBun]

I should note that oda has really good national ideas, making them a military powerhouse as you develop.

 

[Romanix90]

I should note that oda has really good national ideas, making them a military powerhouse as you develop.

Another one that i personaly find ibteresting is Otomo. Basically their NI are telling you convert to Catholicism. I find them very interesting if one wants to play as Christian Japan.

 

[Korsjan Rīkis]

I finished my Tokugawa run and this is the result:

I finished this campaign really fast, probably, because I didn't have to pause a lot and there's bad weather outside, so more time to play!

I couldn't even resist this region and I simply continued my Ashikaga run and now I'm playing with them. Not going to form Japan with them either, I'll probably just limit myself to Japan itself, except for daimyos.

I should note that oda has really good national ideas, making them a military powerhouse as you develop.

Yes, I have read about that. That's the reason, why they were my 1st target as Tokugawa, I eliminated the threat before it can cause me any trouble. BTW, I plan to form Japan with Oda, whenever I'll have another run there. So they're on my list.

Another one that i personaly find ibteresting is Otomo. Basically their NI are telling you convert to Catholicism. I find them very interesting if one wants to play as Christian Japan.

I have that run saved up for future, as well. Would be interesting to play as Catholic Japan.

 

[JangoBunBun]

I finished my Tokugawa run and this is the result:
View attachment 826709

I finished this campaign really fast, probably, because I didn't have to pause a lot and there's bad weather outside, so more time to play!

I couldn't even resist this region and I simply continued my Ashikaga run and now I'm playing with them. Not going to form Japan with them either, I'll probably just limit myself to Japan itself, except for daimyos.


Yes, I have read about that. That's the reason, why they were my 1st target as Tokugawa, I eliminated the threat before it can cause me any trouble. BTW, I plan to form Japan with Oda, whenever I'll have another run there. So they're on my list.


I have that run saved up for future, as well. Would be interesting to play as Catholic Japan.

Oda's starts with 10% morale of armies, AND 10% infantry combat ability. They also have 10% CCR and province WS cost, as well as a siege pip in their ideas. They're designed for outright conquest

 

[cuendillar]

A very unique type of Japan playthrough is to pick Kono and utilize their ideas to go all-out navy (including early Maritime and Naval ideas) and use spaceships to compensate for weaker land units.

 

[Korsjan Rīkis]

Here's my Ashikaga Shogunate: