Questions about Command Structure and stacking

[buhumphrey]

Hi, I'm new to HOI3. I'm playing FTM ver.3.05, I've played HOI 1 many years ago but never HOI 2. I'm using basic command structuren Theater > Army Group > Army > Corps > Division. I've read you shouldn't attach Divisions directly to a Theater.
1) If my Theater commander is Skill Level 5 and I'm attaching 5 Divisions per Corps how many Corps can I attach to my Army commander Skill Level 5 with out getting penalized?

2) Can I attach Divisions directly to my Army Group commander and/or my Army commander? And if so will this lower the amount of Corps I can attach to my Army commander?

Thank you in advance for any help and suggestions,
BubbaTheMan

 

[Pugmak]

Creation of chain of command is 5 units per level max except at Theater, where there's no limit.

So, up to 5 divisions attached to corps. Up to 5 corps' or independent divisions in whatever mix to army. Up to 5 army, independent corps or independent divisions per army group. However many of whatever attached at Theater level. Aircraft and/or ship fleets do not count toward total units allowed.

Skill level of commander does not affect the number of units allowed to be attached at any level. Skill level of commander does impact bonuses of the various levels of the chain of command, though.

The Paradox Wikis tab at the very top of the forum page has lots of useful info and it's broken down by expansion so you can get accurate info for the game you have.

http://www.hoi3wiki.com/Reference has a metric crap ton of useful info.

http://www.hoi3wiki.com/Command_structure is relevant to your current questions.

 

[buhumphrey]

Creation of chain of command is 5 units per level max except at Theater, where there's no limit.

So, up to 5 divisions attached to corps. Up to 5 corps' or independent divisions in whatever mix to army. Up to 5 army, independent corps or independent divisions per army group. However many of whatever attached at Theater level. Aircraft and/or ship fleets do not count toward total units allowed.

Skill level of commander does not affect the number of units allowed to be attached at any level. Skill level of commander does impact bonuses of the various levels of the chain of command, though.

The Paradox Wikis tab at the very top of the forum page has lots of useful info and it's broken down by expansion so you can get accurate info for the game you have.

http://www.hoi3wiki.com/Reference has a metric crap ton of useful info.

http://www.hoi3wiki.com/Command_structure is relevant to your current questions.

Thank you, I read the wiki on Command Structure but I didn't see anything about the 5 max for each. It said something in there about a stacking bonus per skill level of the Theater commander so I was hoping maybe that would trickle down to where you can add a 6th division or corp.

 

[Pugmak]

Ok. I see the issue of confusion now.

The Theater general's skill level works *against* stacking penalties. You get -5% penalty when overstacked per skill level of the Theater general.

Stacking, btw, is a bit complex and I never really bothered with learning the details. All I do, as a rule of thumb, is limit direct attacks from one province to another to 4 divisions in a stack and send 1 more division from each border province I want to add into that fight.

Stacking is also different from "frontage". Basically, frontage is 10 "line" brigades wide in a province, +5 line brigades per bordering province added... I think lol. You can have brigs more than frontage without prob, iirc. But being short on frontage adds to various combat events that you'd probably rather avoid.

It's been a while since I've played and I'm not all that detail oriented when I do play, so I probably got that a bit sideways. Someone smarter should come along and clear up any wrongness soonish.

Forgot to mention:

There's a diff between line brigades and support brigades. Line brigades are your actual front line troops as in point of the spear types. Infantry, Motor Infantry, Armor (light, med. Cant recall if heavy is line or support), Marine, Paratrooper, Mountain Infantry, Militia, Garrison and cavalry.
Support is engineers, artillery (self propelled, towed, etc), military police, armored cars, anti aircraft, etc and so on.

Can't make a division of all support brigades. It will just run away from a fight. Line brigades are the only ones counted toward Frontage.

 

[Didz]

Thank you, I read the wiki on Command Structure but I didn't see anything about the 5 max for each. It said something in there about a stacking bonus per skill level of the Theater commander so I was hoping maybe that would trickle down to where you can add a 6th division or corp.

If your still not certain I can recommend this youtube by Michael Broscheck which I found really clear and helpful.

In fact, I took a screen shot of the final diagram and kept it as a quick reference until I memorised the details.

Where things get move interesting is when you decide to miss HQ's out of the command chain.

For example: Attaching Divisions directly to Army HQ's.

My understanding is that when you do that the Leader Traits of the commanders are adjusted to reflect the flatter structure. So, in the example the Army Commanders command Trait would have a 50% effect on the Divisions attached to it, not 25% as it would if there was an intervening Corps HQ.

However, the Leader Skill and effect level for the missing Corps HQ is lost. So, you do not get the improved % chance of reserve divisions joining your battles, which is the skill benefit of a Corps HQ.

Stacking has nothing to do with Command Structure directly, but is simply a term used to refer to the number of units jammed into a single province. In theory they could come from several different commands. Stuffing too many units into the same province causes them all to suffer a stacking penalty, in effect the get in each others way. This is partly offset by the skill level of the local Theatre Commander, but I'm assuming that any benefit is onlt applied to thse units in the stack that belong to his theatre.

Combat Width is yet another consideration. But again it's not related to Command Structure or Stacking directly. Instead every province is assumed to have a Combat Frontage of 10, and a Combat Depth of 5.

This determines the number of Divisions that can fight simultaneously in that province. A Division has a Combat Width equal to the number of front line brigades it contains. e.g. 3xInf 1xArt = 3 Combat Width because the Artillery is a support unit and so doesn't use Combat Width. So, three such divisions use 9 x Combat Frontage leaving 1 outstanding into which you can jam a fourth Division. If the same province is attacked from a different direction then each new direction adds 5 Combat Depth to the total available.

If you commit more Dvisions to a battle than can fit into the available combat width, then the excess are placed in reserve and only join the fight if one of the frontline divisions is shattered and the 'Reserve' command skill is high enough to commit them.

 

[Kovax]

Note that you can add one more division to the front line as long as the frontage is not already EXCEEDED. That means, If you have those 3 divisions of 3xINF+ART (9 frontage), you can add another similar division of 3xINF+ART, which will exceed the existing frontage of 10 by 2 width, but will still fight without any penalty. If you use 5 divisions of 2xINF+2xART (10 frontage), you can STILL add another division because the frontage has not already been exceeded, BUT 6 divisions will inflict a STACKING penalty of -5% onto each of the 6 divisions present. A 7th division would not be able to advance to the front line unless one unit dropped out or a combat event increased the frontage, yet would add ANOTHER -5% penalty to all of the units in combat.

Ideally, you would want that 6th division to attack from a different province, which would not incur a penalty, AND would increase the available frontage by +5 to 15, so you could then add in two more 2xINF+ART divisions from that other province (8 divisions total, with a frontage of 16, and a HEAP of Artillery). Attacking from a third province would not only add another +5 to the frontage (20 width, so up to 11 2xINF+2xART divisions could participate), but would also inflict a -5% Encircled penalty on the defender (being attacked from 3 or more directions).