Question to devs about Eastern European provinces in post-AoW

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Big Blue Blob

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Well, not that the game had to portray it, but from OTL perspective Novgorod was doomed by 1444. Even Novgorodians themselves understood that, the questions were "Moscow or Lithuania?" and "Submit now, or wait for a miracle?". Their main problem was, ironically, their own success: their population far exceed the number that could be fed by their lands, so they heavily depended on food supply from Moscow and Lithuania. By 1444 Moscow already acquired foothold on Beloe lake, so it could even cut the Novgorod's trade with its colonies at will, and unsurprisingly, most of them became a sort of Moscow-Novgorodian condominiums. Add to that the collapse of GH, that resulted in chaos in the Volga region that made Volga trade impossible (and Novgorod greatly profited when GH was strong, because it meant that Volga trade is safe and active), and you can see that republic was on the verge of collapse.

So yeah, Novgorod can become a power in player's hands, but AI usually loses, which is pretty much correct. But then again, I like historical rail-roading, I know most people hate it :)

Yes, the game had to portray it. Novgorod was pretty much doomed in 1444. A truly historical start is not the same as historical railroading, where losers are artificially gimped so they will lose even if the winners make stupid decisions (France in HOI3).
 

Zak Preston

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Yes, the game had to portray it. Novgorod was pretty much doomed in 1444. A truly historical start is not the same as historical railroading, where losers are artificially gimped so they will lose even if the winners make stupid decisions (France in HOI3).

Also I think that Hungary is bot in a good position, since they have a lot of 2-3 BT provinces with very low supply limit.
 

Big Blue Blob

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Also I think that Hungary is bot in a good position, since they have a lot of 2-3 BT provinces with very low supply limit.

Hungary does feel a little weak. Its propensity to ally the Teutonic Order and fight Poland is slightly worrying too, when it should really seek alliance with Austria as it historically did - at least under the AI. It very rarely intervenes against the Ottomans as it did historically, either. Those campaigns are an important point in history which are usually ignored completely.
 

Zak Preston

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Posted a bug report about forming both Ruthenia and Russia:

1. Formed Ruthenia, later on Muscovy formed Russia:
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Game files say quite opposite:

Code:
NOT = { exists = RUS } #Ruthenia is alternative to Russia, both shouldnt coexist


2. All Ruthenian states use Russian culture names and surnames for their leaders and monarchs All names you see on screenshots are modded.


The part about forming Ruthenia decision seems completely... funny (to say the least) and ahistorical, especially the part with "escaped the northern woods" )))


BTW, the easiest way to form Ruthenia is to unite PLC and switch cultures =)
 

Zak Preston

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Another issue about Eastern Slavic region is wrong naming: most provinces tend to have Russian names instead of official ones. There may be a lot of debates about proper naming and how those cities/towns/provinces are spelled in English, but official names differ from what EU4 currently has. But there is a sad tendency about naming post-USSR provinces in Russian instead of native languages.

EU4.........................Ukrainian (Cyrillic)..........Latin transliteration........Russian (Cyrillic)..........Russian transliteration
Kiev.........................Київ [ˈkɪjiw]......................Kyiv................................Киев ['kijew]...................Kiev
Chernigov................ Чернігів [t͡ʃɛrˈnʲiɦiw] ............Chernihiv ........................Чернигов [tɕɪrˈnʲiɡəf]........Chernigov
Podolia.....................Поділля [po'dillia]..............Podillia............................Подолье [po'dollije].........Podolye
Novgorod-Seversky....Новгород-Сіверський........Novhorod-Siverskyi............Новгород-Северский.......Novgorod-Seversky

EU4.........................Belarussian (Cyrillic)......Latin transliteration........Russian (Cyrillic)...........Russian transliteration
Mogilev.....................Магілёў[maɣʲiˈlʲou̯]............. Mahilioŭ........................... Могилёв[məɡʲɪˈlʲof] ...........Mogilev
Grodno.....................Гродна[ˈhrodna]................Hrodna...........................Гродно [ˈɡrodnə]..............Grodno
Turov.......................Ту́раў['turau]....................Turaŭ..............................Туров['turof]....................Turov
Polotsk.....................По́лацк['polatsk]...............Polatsk............................Полоцк['polotsk]..............Polotsk
 

cleef

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Another issue about Eastern Slavic region is wrong naming: most provinces tend to have Russian names instead of official ones. There may be a lot of debates about proper naming and how those cities/towns/provinces are spelled in English, but official names differ from what EU4 currently has. But there is a sad tendency about naming post-USSR provinces in Russian instead of native languages.

EU4.........................Ukrainian (Cyrillic)..........Latin transliteration........Russian (Cyrillic)..........Russian transliteration
Kiev.........................Київ [ˈkɪjiw]......................Kyiv................................Киев ['kijew]...................Kiev
Chernigov................ Чернігів [t͡ʃɛrˈnʲiɦiw] ............Chernihiv ........................Чернигов [tɕɪrˈnʲiɡəf]........Chernigov
Podolia.....................Поділля [po'dillia]..............Podillia............................Подолье [po'dollije].........Podolye
Novgorod-Seversky....Новгород-Сіверський........Novhorod-Siverskyi............Новгород-Северский.......Novgorod-Seversky

EU4.........................Belarussian (Cyrillic)......Latin transliteration........Russian (Cyrillic)...........Russian transliteration
Mogilev.....................Магілёў[maɣʲiˈlʲou̯]............. Mahilioŭ........................... Могилёв[məɡʲɪˈlʲof] ...........Mogilev
Grodno.....................Гродна[ˈhrodna]................Hrodna...........................Гродно [ˈɡrodnə]..............Grodno
Turov.......................Ту́раў['turau]....................Turaŭ..............................Туров['turof]....................Turov
Polotsk.....................По́лацк['polatsk]...............Polatsk............................Полоцк['polotsk]..............Polotsk

This also applies to other areas of the world and other provinces... I guess we'll have to accept this one...
 

Zak Preston

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This also applies to other areas of the world and other provinces... I guess we'll have to accept this one...

Wait, why do Poland's provinces change name to German when Austria annexes them? Why are Scandinavian provinces named in native languages, not in English equivalents? Most Tartar provinces were renamed from Russian to their respective cultures original names. I bet Poles or Lithuanians wouldn't like if their native provinces had Russian names in EU4 ;)
For sure all other regions should be revised, especially poor Eastern Europe, but I see none suggesting similar changes to other regions.
 

Gachr

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I agree that some changes need to be made to Eastern Europe.
As a person with Polish family and who lived in Poland I never heard of "Wizna", I googled it and it turned out that now it is a small town with population of 1000. I think that "Łomża" would be a much better name for the province.
Also many Polish province names should be added for dynamic province names, like "Szczecin" for "Stettin", "Kijów" for "Kiev" or "Przemyśl" for "Permyshl" (or however it is called in EU4).
The power balance is also bad, you can't take overpowered Russia or Ottomans as Commonwealth. I think that the whole Commonwealth should be about the strength of Russia and France.
 

Zak Preston

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I agree that some changes need to be made to Eastern Europe.
As a person with Polish family and who lived in Poland I never heard of "Wizna", I googled it and it turned out that now it is a small town with population of 1000. I think that "Łomża" would be a much better name for the province.
Also many Polish province names should be added for dynamic province names, like "Szczecin" for "Stettin", "Kijów" for "Kiev" or "Przemyśl" for "Permyshl" (or however it is called in EU4).
The power balance is also bad, you can't take overpowered Russia or Ottomans as Commonwealth. I think that the whole Commonwealth should be about the strength of Russia and France.

Dynamic province names is the best solution, IMHO. But by default provinces should be given national names (Polish name for Poland, Lithuanian for Lithuanian or Belarussian for Belarussian and so on) with proper spelling.

In terms of PLC: in human hands PLC (Poland in early game) is already a monster and crushes Muscovy, Hungary or Teutonic Order quite easily. There's no actual need in buffing them by no means.
 

cleef

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I've made some corrections to some provinces of Moldavia before AoW got released but a dev working on it just told me that's the name the russians gave it and should be appropriate...

Paradox seems to be too lazy to add up more alternate province names, since the system of Dynamic Province Naming already exists... It would be that easy...
 

Gachr

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Dynamic province names is the best solution, IMHO. But by default provinces should be given national names (Polish name for Poland, Lithuanian for Lithuanian or Belarussian for Belarussian and so on) with proper spelling.

In terms of PLC: in human hands PLC (Poland in early game) is already a monster and crushes Muscovy, Hungary or Teutonic Order quite easily. There's no actual need in buffing them by no means.
Poland can indeed crush Hungary and Teutonic together with Lithuania, but not Muscovy, especially after they take all of Novgorod. Even as Commonwealth. I'm not talking about boosting them, more of debuffing Ottomans which are too strong and the Commonwealth isn't a challenge for them like in the history.
 

zemuzil

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Ruthenian region is already ahistorical wealthy and populous and certainly doesn't need more i can agree on changing the shapes of provinces they look ugly but adding more nope

just load the game as Lithuania they are in top 6 leading nations in taxes at the start in europe due ruthenian provinces which is pure bs
 
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Zak Preston

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Ruthenian region is already ahistorical wealthy and populous and certainly doesn't need more i can agree on changing the shapes of provinces they look ugly but adding more nope

just load the game as Lithuania they are in top 6 leading nations in taxes at the start in europe due ruthenian provinces which is pure bs

Do you have any documentary proofs that Ruthenian provinces weren't populous and rich in XV century? Care to read about Battle at Grunewald
For sure adding new provinces would require BT tweaks so that it's overall value shouldn't change much.
 

zemuzil

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Do you have any documentary proofs that Ruthenian provinces weren't populous and rich in XV century? Care to read about Battle at Grunewald
For sure adding new provinces would require BT tweaks so that it's overall value shouldn't change much.

Ever under gruwald most of the knights on Polish- Lithuanian alliance were from Poland so i fail to see what this have to do with the thread
 

zemuzil

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I agree that some changes need to be made to Eastern Europe.
As a person with Polish family and who lived in Poland I never heard of "Wizna", I googled it and it turned out that now it is a small town with population of 1000. I think that "Łomża" would be a much better name for the province.
Also many Polish province names should be added for dynamic province names, like "Szczecin" for "Stettin", "Kijów" for "Kiev" or "Przemyśl" for "Permyshl" (or however it is called in EU4).
The power balance is also bad, you can't take overpowered Russia or Ottomans as Commonwealth. I think that the whole Commonwealth should be about the strength of Russia and France.


ok it looks like i was wrong nvm
 
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EMT0

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Poland can indeed crush Hungary and Teutonic together with Lithuania, but not Muscovy, especially after they take all of Novgorod. Even as Commonwealth. I'm not talking about boosting them, more of debuffing Ottomans which are too strong and the Commonwealth isn't a challenge for them like in the history.

Crushing Muscovy is tricky, you really have to invade when their manpower is in the crapper, as well as resolve to avoid tangling with anybody to your west, as dealing with Muscovy means utterly destroying your manpower pool, and multiple times at that, before Muscovy can die. Feeding Perm and Pskov provinces from Muscovy, and later Novgorod once Muscovy is out of the picture, is fairly straightforward though. Just frustrating with the incredibly high attrition rates. And as a bonus, the PLC can easily maintain Polish, Prussian, Byelorussian, Ruthenian, and Russian as accepted cultures at the same time. Of course, it's impossible to have Lithuanian as accepted, and something should probably be done about that...
 

zemuzil

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Crushing Muscovy is tricky, you really have to invade when their manpower is in the crapper, as well as resolve to avoid tangling with anybody to your west, as dealing with Muscovy means utterly destroying your manpower pool, and multiple times at that, before Muscovy can die. Feeding Perm and Pskov provinces from Muscovy, and later Novgorod once Muscovy is out of the picture, is fairly straightforward though. Just frustrating with the incredibly high attrition rates. And as a bonus, the PLC can easily maintain Polish, Prussian, Byelorussian, Ruthenian, and Russian as accepted cultures at the same time. Of course, it's impossible to have Lithuanian as accepted, and something should probably be done about that...



Lithuania itself can crush Muscovy with livonians ,ryazan as vassals i did it last night it wasn't even hard
 
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