Question - slavery in 1.5

[Shatterfury]

Incorrect- those terms all mean different things. "Caste system" means any POP on a mine or a farm is a slave. They're not "chattel slaves" because "chattel slavery" means you're ALL enslaved- equally, POPs not enslaved are not "full citizens" because if you move that POP onto a mine it is enslaved automatically.

Well in the official diary it says it`s mix of full citizens and slaves, the wording is less important, the mechanics are more important.

Is there a way of making a difference between those that work in science and energy and those that work in farming and mining in terms of goods consumed ?

I`m asking because I would like to have a militaristic, authoritarian, xenophile empire....think about the Tau Empire.
Caste system would have been ok for role playing that using outright slavery.

 

[henzington]

Yes caste slaves are enslaved on farms and mines and not on energy and research

 

[Shatterfury]

Yes caste slaves are enslaved on farms and mines and not on energy and research

The consumption goods are at the same level for the entire species regardless if they are on energy/science or farming/mining ?

 

[henzington]

I believe so but this could change or be wrong as consumer goods have not been fully explained yet.

 

[Shatterfury]

I believe so but this could change or be wrong as consumer goods have not been fully explained yet.

I hope they change it so that under the caste system you can make a distinction.

 

[jose2534]

@Wiz
I have a question:

Is slavery, and caste system, going to be block only for xenophobes and or authoritarian empires, or are all the ethos (except for egalitarian and probably any ethos in a democratic government) going to be able to opt for those. For example a militaristic F spiritualist under a Junta is going to be able to put its people under a caste system, or are they lock to full citizenship always? Plus, are they going to be able to do the same with the rest of the xenos, or even be able to have them all as slaves?

 

[The Founder]

Is slavery, and chaste system, going to be block only for xenophobes and or authoritarian empires, or are all the ethos (except for egalitarian and probably any ethos in a democratic government) going to be able to opt for those. For example a militaristic F spiritualist under a Junta is going to be able to put its people under a chaste system, or are they lock to full citizenship always? Plus, are they going to be able to do the same with the rest of the xenos, or even be able to have them all as slaves?

caste and chaste are very different words. It is really wierd if you mix them up

As I gather it:
Slaves will give you a penalty to Unity Gain. But there is a tradition effect to counter just that.
It will also give Individualist, Xenophobic and/or Collectivist atraction - both in general and for specific pops being affected by that.
If you got a strong faction, they will want to become the Government Ethos.
These effects might mostly or even entirely replace the Happiness penalty and Slavery factions the game already got.
I could well see slavery being turned into a Tradition over an Ethos entirely (Domination in particular seems to be a strong contender for the slavery ethos. With Purity being a close 2nd). But the whole thing is propably to uncerain as of yet to give any definitive details.

As I see it, it should not be nessesary for a Militarist to resort to slavery for warfare. The Militarist bonus alone should be enough (Weapon Damage, Tech chances and Supremacy Tradition) to let you win wars.

 

[Zoinker]

Individualism and Collectivism are being replaced with egalitarianism and authoritarianism. According to the dev diary on factions, slaves will gravitate towards egalitarianism.

 

[General Retreat]

My understanding of caste living standards are that you set your desired level for the citizen caste, with those who are enslaved defaulting back to poor, as with chattel.

 

[Shatterfury]

My understanding of caste living standards are that you set your desired level for the citizen caste, with those who are enslaved defaulting back to poor, as with chattel.

Aaaa...not bad.
You are making sense, you set up the living standards for those working on science and energy and those that work on farms and in mines are enslaved thus fall under chattel slavery living standards.

I hope that caste system doesn`t have a big diplomatic penalty like proper slavery.

My Tau Empire will mix up some enforced greater good with pragmatic diplomacy.

 

[mister00]

I think division into two option lists like (Full, Limited, Undesirable) and (Free, Caste, Slaves) will make much more sense and doesn't confuse like now. For example, Caste species have vote right for non-slaves, but what if we want Caste without vote right? Then we have to either free them all with Limited or enslave them all.

 

[jose2534]

Wiz told that the caste system and the full citizenship is one of the two status that can be use in your primary species (you can't enslave them, for example). And taking in consideration that a caste is a people unite under a culture that centers around elitism and stability, I think that those slaves also share the same living conditions that their leaders, giving to the fact that they are not under a “tyrannical” rule.

caste and chaste are very different words. It is really wierd if you mix them up

Yeah, inglish is not my mother language so I mix things somethimes, thank you, is edited now.

 

[scaper12123]

I have a question about slavery, and this is why I find the creation of new slave pops to be annoying. What if I want a slave species to increase their population on one planet, but not increase their population on another planet? Say I want to "grow" my servants on one world and then export them to another world later, but not have them heavily populate the world? How can we differentiate that?

 

[Wizzington]

The consumption goods are at the same level for the entire species regardless if they are on energy/science or farming/mining ?

Caste System has reduced consumer goods use, though not nearly so reduced as a fully enslaved species.

 

[Wizzington]

Wiz told that the caste system and the full citizenship is one of the two status that can be use in your primary species (you can't enslave them, for example). And taking in consideration that a caste is a people unite under a culture that centers around elitism and stability, I think that those slaves also share the same living conditions that their leaders, giving to the fact that they are not under a “tyrannical” rule.



Yeah, inglish is not my mother language so I mix things somethimes, thank you, is edited now.

No. In a caste system part of the population is oppressed for the benefit of the rest, basically.

 

[jose2534]

No. In a caste system part of the population is oppressed for the benefit of the rest, basically.

Got it, thanks Wiz

 

[Atlantians]

You can upgrade them to poor living conditions in the case of chattel slavery and domestic servants, and battle thralls can be given any living conditions you want. The idea that slavery would be remotely economically viable if you gave them decent living standards (keep in mind this covers things like time off work), though. The entire point of chattel slavery is the extraction of forced labor.

Not being able to make policies on a per pop basis is absurd.

What if early on several pops of Species A migrated to my society and integrated well, becoming core members of my civilization, decades later, their civilization becomes a major antagonist and I am forced to conquer their Star Empire, and am so frustrated I just want to enslave all their indigenous pops, while leaving alone the ones who long ago integrated already.

Can't do that now.

 

[Caewil]

Not being able to make policies on a per pop basis is absurd.

What if early on several pops of Species A migrated to my society and integrated well, becoming core members of my civilization, decades later, their civilization becomes a major antagonist and I am forced to conquer their Star Empire, and am so frustrated I just want to enslave all their indigenous pops, while leaving alone the ones who long ago integrated already.

Can't do that now.

Genetically engineer the immigrants into a sub-species?

 

[Atlantians]

Genetically engineer the immigrants into a sub-species?

The slave laws and species rights laws apply to sub-species as well.

@Wiz !!!

 

[The Founder]

Not being able to make policies on a per pop basis is absurd.

What if early on several pops of Species A migrated to my society and integrated well, becoming core members of my civilization, decades later, their civilization becomes a major antagonist and I am forced to conquer their Star Empire, and am so frustrated I just want to enslave all their indigenous pops, while leaving alone the ones who long ago integrated already.

Can't do that now.

How many conquerors ever did that in real life? Oh right, 0. Because they were not dumb enough to try that.
Even the US rather interred every Japanese on thier Land during WW2, then have the remote risk of them being Japanese spies.