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Grundius

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First off, great that the unification of Germany is an option. Still, I have some questions about it. Why is there not a more military way of doing this? Is it not possible, historically, that one Elector forced it's will on the others? Is this option not available because of game balance? Because I can imagine such an option making Austria too strong, yet for other HRE nations it looks balanced to my (albeit untrained) eye.
 

Twoflower

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Grundius said:
First off, great that the unification of Germany is an option. Still, I have some questions about it. Why is there not a more military way of doing this? Is it not possible, historically, that one Elector forced it's will on the others? Is this option not available because of game balance? Because I can imagine such an option making Austria too strong, yet for other HRE nations it looks balanced to my (albeit untrained) eye.
Simply because it wasn't implemented yet :eek:o Mettermrck has a sequence scripted up that only needs to be reworked a bit imho and could be put in then.
 

Mettermrck

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Twoflower said:
Simply because it wasn't implemented yet :eek:o Mettermrck has a sequence scripted up that only needs to be reworked a bit imho and could be put in then.

I had proposed it in the Germany/Austria thread a couple weeks ago, but I got no comments. Maybe I should try again in the Fantasy Germany Unification thread. With Twoflower's completing the monarchs and leaders thread, the sequence I scripted is pretty much ready to go for tinkering and testing.

http://www.geocities.com/vercellae/german_unification.txt
 

Grundius

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Qelebex said:
Pfalz, Saxony, Brandenburg, Bavaria and HAB may create Germany, no other. The others etiher lack territorial power (in real) or diplomatic power.

Well, that's one thing you can resolve in EU2: You can expand that power. I would say that any nation could eventually become powerful enough to become Germany. If you want to go for realism - few parts of the HRE ever had the power to unite Germany within the game period, and if they did have the power or obtained it later, they seemed to be not interested (Prussia, Austria). My point is: either make it possible for all German HRE states or for none. Since I am a great fan of "what could have been if"-events in EU2, I say everybdoy get's a shot. Well, maybe except the Bishoprics.
 

unmerged(49930)

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Grundius said:
Well, that's one thing you can resolve in EU2: You can expand that power. I would say that any nation could eventually become powerful enough to become Germany. If you want to go for realism - few parts of the HRE ever had the power to unite Germany within the game period, and if they did have the power or obtained it later, they seemed to be not interested (Prussia, Austria). My point is: either make it possible for all German HRE states or for none. Since I am a great fan of "what could have been if"-events in EU2, I say everybdoy get's a shot. Well, maybe except the Bishoprics.

I am also the fan of "what if" :) I think this makes the game, not historic simulation. Jacketing with events is not historical as history happened in a way because of what happened before. If it doesn't happen like that, future events will be ahistorical.

The problem is here is the game design. You cannot and cannot represent northwestern part of Germany in anyway. The province design is a piece of land with a COT of its own, the capital. It is a self standing country, with the ability of raising troops, population that defines themselves with the land and running a self-sufficient economy. Although the game is named Europa Universalis, it better represents eastern europe and middle east like states and lands, not that of the west, where lands change hand by money and heritage.

What I mean, you CANNOT make it possible for the every German HRE nation to create Germany since you will need at least about 170 provinces to represent them. And if you make those provinces with a new map, they will not match the game's understanding of a province. Was it Hamburg or Lübeck the capital city of Holstein? Did the monarch have any control over these cities? Did these cities have any loyal rural population for the manpower?

Those represented states (Kleves, Bremen, eg.) don't have a state like control over the province they are represented in. AFAIK the ones I mentioned are the only ones that had a state like power and control (Mecklenburg may be an exception). Pommerainan Duchies cannot do it with a Polish duke. And for the others, they should unite within the province first.

You can expand the power in the game but the power given initially is too much. It will take some time for me and my friends to declare independence, then get the control of the building, then street, then county... pretty much time will be needed to be represented as the owner of the province :p And my chances are thin ;) At some point I will be crushed :D
 

Grundius

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I think you misunderstood - a little - what I was saying Qelebex. I did not mean for all possible duchies and counties that the HRE consisted of to be playable (not even CK does that) just that every German HRE nation that IS in the game to be able to unite the HRE.

Still, you make some good points. Pommerania could not do it with a Polish duke. There would indeed be some states - like Mecklemburg - which are more Free Cities and should be excluded. Likewise for Bishoprics. Still, all the other nations of the HRE that more or less represent Duchies and Counties should be able to claim the German throne, just as would be possible in CK.
 
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Grundius said:
I think you misunderstood - a little - what I was saying Qelebex. I did not mean for all possible duchies and counties that the HRE consisted of to be playable (not even CK does that) just that every German HRE nation that IS in the game to be able to unite the HRE.

I am trying to say that, most of the German states in the game are already "over"represented. They were not capable of uniting the province they are represented in, let alone Germany. But they are represented as if they can tax the whole province and have access to whole of its manpower.

We are almost on the same page actually. If you exclude the states to be excluded, you will come up with a list closer to mine, just a couple of states more.