Question (last for today, I promise) : Multiple Equipment Types for a Battalion ?

[SFSLovenought]

I hope national beverages are represented.
Army morale would be extremely low without an adequate supply of Sake/Vodka/Tea/Guinness/Coca-Cola.

 

[FOARP]

@Alex_brunius
In such case, STRATs would not only bomb IC, but you would also need IC to repair the damaged IC, because factory equipment would be produced by IC (let's ignore the IC types for simplicity). So you would lose IC and need to spend more IC to get the original IC value back. That could get out of control very quickly and lead to many balance problems, I'm afraid.

. . . though AoD had this kind of death-spiral and it was quite playable.

 

[Introvertiert]

HOI4:Quartermaster Edition, available with Pre-Order Now :happy: :laugh:

Thank you for the answer, Podcat.

Comet sighted, you lose 400 Horses

 

[Porkman]

. . . though AoD had this kind of death-spiral and it was quite playable.

Don't tell them that! Everyone knows we can't port AOD mechanics into HOI4 because.... reasons...

 

[Radu]

Don't tell them that! Everyone knows we can't port AOD mechanics into HOI4 because.... reasons...

Too late! "Gearing Bonuses" are in according to the Production Lines Dev Diary.

 

[Secret Master]

. . . though AoD had this kind of death-spiral and it was quite playable.

You say that, but people already complain that strategic bombing is overpowered in HOI3, and HOI3 doesn't feature this kind of death spiral. Can you imagine the complaints in the scenario you describe?

 

[Porkman]

You say that, but people already complain that strategic bombing is overpowered in HOI3, and HOI3 doesn't feature this kind of death spiral. Can you imagine the complaints in the scenario you describe?

We don't "say that," we (the tens of thousands of people who bought AOD) actually know it.

Hand in hand with this mechanic is the diminishing returns for Strategic bombing. Taking down the IC in a province to 90% with strats is easy. Taking it down below 50% is hard. Stopping production is impossible.

 

[Secret Master]

We don't "say that," we (the tens of thousands of people who bought AOD) actually know it.

Hand in hand with this mechanic is the diminishing returns for Strategic bombing. Taking down the IC in a province to 90% with strats is easy. Taking it down below 50% is hard. Stopping production is impossible.

Yes, but that's not what FOARP or Cybvep or Alex said. No one in this thread mentioned both at the same time: IC requires IC to rebuild, and diminishing returns on bombing. FOARP only said that the death spiral was present in AoD and still playable.

I can't be sure FOARP wants to include the diminishing returns based on his statement in this thread. The fact that he even calls it a death spiral makes me wonder if he thinks the diminishing returns is a good idea, since the diminishing returns aspect makes it not quite the death spiral others make it out to be. Perhaps he was being ironic, but if that's true, then we are just not communicating well.

And if you think balancing strategic bombing isn't a big deal, then I'm not sure what to say. I think it's a really big deal, because I'm not entirely sure I've seen ANY model of strategic bombing that accurately represents both what happened and what was realistically possible in the actual war. That's also including the fact that I'm not sure there is consensus on just how effective certain kinds of strategic bombing actually was. Hell, bombing Japan in 1945 with B-29s was an entirely different game than bombing Germany with Lancasters in 1943.

I'm not just making things up; I've seen plenty of complaints in the HOI3 forum about strategic bombing being too effective. (Or, in some cases, not complaints. Just observations that it is far more effective in the game than it was historically.) Just saying "AOD did it better" without making it fully clear why it was better doesn't help the discussion. And just because I am not sure I agree with AOD's implementation of strategic bombing, it doesn't mean that I am attacking AOD or seeking to bring it into disrepute.

 

[Porkman]

Yes, but that's not what FOARP or Cybvep or Alex said. No one in this thread mentioned both at the same time: IC requires IC to rebuild, and diminishing returns on bombing. FOARP only said that the death spiral was present in AoD and still playable.

I can't be sure FOARP wants to include the diminishing returns based on his statement in this thread. The fact that he even calls it a death spiral makes me wonder if he thinks the diminishing returns is a good idea, since the diminishing returns aspect makes it not quite the death spiral others make it out to be. Perhaps he was being ironic, but if that's true, then we are just not communicating well.

And if you think balancing strategic bombing isn't a big deal, then I'm not sure what to say. I think it's a really big deal, because I'm not entirely sure I've seen ANY model of strategic bombing that accurately represents both what happened and what was realistically possible in the actual war. That's also including the fact that I'm not sure there is consensus on just how effective certain kinds of strategic bombing actually was. Hell, bombing Japan in 1945 with B-29s was an entirely different game than bombing Germany with Lancasters in 1943.

I'm not just making things up; I've seen plenty of complaints in the HOI3 forum about strategic bombing being too effective. (Or, in some cases, not complaints. Just observations that it is far more effective in the game than it was historically.) Just saying "AOD did it better" without making it fully clear why it was better doesn't help the discussion. And just because I am not sure I agree with AOD's implementation of strategic bombing, it doesn't mean that I am attacking AOD or seeking to bring it into disrepute.

FOARP wasn't clear and it is a death spiral if there wasn't the diminishing returns on strat effectiveness. That said, I think FOARP was mocking the idea of there being a death spiral at all.

 

[Alex_brunius]

Yes, but that's not what FOARP or Cybvep or Alex said.

If we ask them to make everything moddable at once we might have a problem, but now that you mention it sure. Please Paradox make diminishing returns formulas for strategic damage moddable too!



In general I don't see how you can go wrong with diminishing returns everywhere.

 

[Dalwin]

I think one of the things that reduces, if not eliminates, this death spiral with strat bombing is the separation of IC into three types. It is not your primary IC (sole IC in previous versions, military factories in HOI4) which will be used to repair the damage to your military factories. It will be the civilian ones. I think this diversification of the IC adds a lot to the strategic warfare possibilities.

 

[Introvertiert]

I think one of the things that reduces, if not eliminates, this death spiral with strat bombing is the separation of IC into three types. It is not your primary IC (sole IC in previous versions, military factories in HOI4) which will be used to repair the damage to your military factories. It will be the civilian ones. I think this diversification of the IC adds a lot to the strategic warfare possibilities.

Or just underground production the other thing would be infrastructure

 

[jamesd]

A big question I have on this topic is with regards to infantry guns and AT guns that were organic to infantry battalions or regiments. Some nations had light (and even not so light) artillery pieces attached to their infantry while others did not. The Germans had 75mm & 150mm infantry guns attached to infantry regiments and the US had 105mm howitzers attached to infantry regiments as infantry guns (they were identical to the guns in the divisional artillery) while the British had all their artillery pieces concentrated in the divisional artillery. Will HOI4 include artillery as "infantry equipment" or will all artillery pieces be assigned to the artillery units in a division?

The same question goes for AT guns. Many nations had AT guns attached to their infantry in addition to the infantry's AT rifles, grenades, mines and later PIAT & Bazooka type weapons. For example the late war British infantry division had 32 x 17pdr & 16 x 6pdr guns in the divisional AT Rgt and 62 x 6pdr guns attached to the infantry and recon battalions. It would seem a little odd to me to have some AT guns produced as "infantry equipment" while other identical AT guns are produced as AT guns.

 

[Natvander]

I hope national beverages are represented.
Army morale would be extremely low without an adequate supply of Sake/Vodka/Tea/Guinness/Coca-Cola.

Two beers per-man, per-day, per-haps.

 

[208]

Too late! "Gearing Bonuses" are in according to the Production Lines Dev Diary.

Gearing bonuses are a vanilla HoI2 mechanic.

In general I don't see how you can go wrong with diminishing returns everywhere.

I think the effectiveness of adding diminishing returns would probably decrease the more of it you add...