question for the sharp AOD dudes.....

[bshirt73]

Heh, started playing the awesome AOD game but would greatly appreciate someone's insight. Playing as Germany in early 1942. It just seems quite strange to me......the Russians attacked me several places in Spring time. Amazingly to me, my Stukas 's couldn't be used due to being "out of range"?????

"Out of Range" when the Russians are attacking my German soldiers & air bases in the same province that has my Stukas??

I just don't get it. I greatly appreciate someone's expertise.....thank you!

 

[Pang Bingxun]

What distance is the province that you want your CAS to attack? The mouseover should conveniently tell you this important fact.

 

[bshirt73]

What distance is the province that you want your CAS to attack? The mouseover should conveniently tell you this important fact.

Oh sure.....you're quite correct sir. But what I'm trying to say is that the Russians are attacking "my" province which surely has their army moving on into my province border or perhaps even further. So then why do my CAS need the range to the middle or more of Russian's province?? The Russians surely aren't in the middle of their province.....they're at least on my province border. Correct?

Now if my German army was attacking their province then I can see why possibly my CAS could be out of range. But defending my own province?? That really doesn't make much sense to me Pang.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Oh sure.....you're quite correct sir. But what I'm trying to say is that the Russians are attacking "my" province which surely has their army moving on into my province border or perhaps even further. So then why do my CAS need the range to the middle or more of Russian's province?? The Russians surely aren't in the middle of their province.....they're at least on my province border. Correct?

No, regarding the essense of it this is wrong.

A unit can only be in one province at a time. Until they have entered the new province and hence left the old province they still are in the old province and you need to bombard them there.

It should be noted that CAS interdicting an attacking army is a very efficient use of CAS. The enemy has no dug bonus and has high supply consumption.

 

[bshirt73]

No, regarding the essense of it this is wrong.

A unit can only be in one province at a time. Until they have entered the new province and hence left the old province they still are in the old province and you need to bombard them there.

It should be noted that CAS interdicting an attacking army is a very efficient use of CAS. The enemy has no dug bonus and has high supply consumption.

Well, I understand how it works "now". I just most humbly disagree and was hoping a guru like Pang could/would change it. But you don't agree and that's just fine sir. It was just an idea.

Hey, off topic but I can't resist stating you & the other programmers have done a SENSATIONAL job with upgrading AOD. It's a real-deal blast now. Crushing Russia is now "not" easy as previously (with average settings). For me, it's a big challenge and boatloads of fun. It sure seems to me mostly due to the increase of the AI. Great job......thank you Pang!!

 

[bshirt73]

Please allow me some basic questions for our 1.12 (ZEAV).

I just can't understand why using the USA has the consumers goods & supplies now bouncing around like a steel ball in a Pin-ball machine. I'm at 12/1942 playing the USA. Even with currently....

1. An active 535 Transport convoys & 549 Escorts
2. Los Angeles w/200% infrastructere & WashingtonDC w/200% infrastructere.
3. D. Eisenhower for -15% supply consumption

I must be doing something horribly wrong. The supply list simply flies all over the place. Sometimes to -140 or -165 or -185 daily. It just stops my USA Army/Navy viciously. I desperately need some advice.

Also, I would GREATLY appreciate Pang or someone to repair the long problem we've had with such low results for Naval battles. Just today, one of my 12 ship sized Carrier fleet can't even sink an unarmed Japan transport. For some crazy reason that "one" Japanese transport just keeps returning to my Carrier Fleet over & over again. It returned seven times and my Fleet each time kept firing away and on the 8th time it "finally" sunk the single transport.

Geesh....

C'mon Pang, your expertise is needed sir.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

1. An active 535 Transport convoys & 549 Escorts

Maybe those transports are not enough to cover a huge need with huge fluctuations. In 1942 you should have more than 30000 supplies in your main depot in the capital and enough transports, which i would interpret as more than 1000.

Supply consumption can vary a lot. During rest units consume reasonably little, but during engagements it goes up a lot. The mere difference in daily supply consumption is (much) higher than the supply consumption during rest. This is one of the very basic features of AoD, it has been this way for over 10 years by now.

If you donnot compensate supply consumption by sufficient resupplyment, then units "accumulate" a lack of supply. This is in the magnitude of a few 10 supplies per land divions and it is similar for air divisions. For naval divions it can be more than 100 supplies per division.

So current supply consumption can vary by more than 1000 per day. In addition you may have accumulated a lack of supplies that may be higher than 2000 supplies.

1 transport can carry slightly less than 2 supplies per day. To be on the safe side you may need almost 2000 transports or even more. Life is much easier if supplies are drawn directly from the capital. A war against Canada or Mexico will be easy. But having to fulfill needs oversea is much harder.

 

[bshirt73]

Hmmmm, very interesting post Pang. Thank you sir!

However, I've honestly played this game for a decade or so & don't recall needing that much transports & escorts. But it's been a very long while since playing the USA for this game. Maybe I've just forgotten how much is needed for the USA cruising all over the world.

So very good. I'll adapt the transport/escorts as you've suggested. Again, I most sincerely appreciate you sharing your expertise. One more time.....THANK YOU Sir!

Lastly, if/when you get some extra time.....adjusting naval battle results would be soooooooo greatly appreciated.

Have fun Pang!!

 

[Pang Bingxun]

However, I've honestly played this game for a decade or so & don't recall needing that much transports & escorts.

Well, it is not so that you need them all time.

If your supply consumers are at home you donnot need 1000 transports. If your supply consumers are in great britain, then they are supplied by the UK. And while they are resting few transports are needed. Depending on how exactly your organize your supply chains 535 transports can suffice. Use few supply depots, but let them be relative big, so there is some reserve for the expected variances in consumption. Organize your supply consuming activities in a matter that is safe to not exceed the capacity of your supply chains.

The later is major concern even if no oversea transports are needed. When playing Germany or Soviet Union you want to avoid that all your supply consuming activies cause supply consumption peaks at the same time and thus a massive tc-overload. In the short term such a massive tc-overload does not hurt much, but if maintained over several days you accumulate a lack of supplies that really hurts your fighting effiency. You may need to let almost all units rest so they can resupply. Keep in mind that during rest supply consumption is lower and without tc-overload supply ontake is higher. So the effect on the net ontake of supplies is significant.

If the situation allows it you want to just slightly underutilize your available tc and therefore alternate between what units rest and what units engange in combat or even just movement. But this is more theory, in practize you may not always have the liberty to optimize in this specific manner due to more pressing concerns.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Also, I would GREATLY appreciate Pang or someone to repair the long problem we've had with such low results for Naval battles. Just today, one of my 12 ship sized Carrier fleet can't even sink an unarmed Japan transport. For some crazy reason that "one" Japanese transport just keeps returning to my Carrier Fleet over & over again. It returned seven times and my Fleet each time kept firing away and on the 8th time it "finally" sunk the single transport.

The success of naval battles is very hard to measure. One transport ship, by itself, has a relatively high chance of escaping, or not being discovered in the first place. It's a bit of an inverted logic... As the TP has high visibility, it has a high chance of being discovered at a very high range (normally the maximum 200km), meaning it starts out of range of all enemy units, including carriers! This slowly decreases as the battle progresses, but it tends to give enough time for the transport ship to escape. Another factor is if the transport ship is led by a "Blockade Runner", then it has a high chance of not being discovered at all. It would also be interesting to know how good your fleet positioning was at this time.

That said, I'm not sure how it's possible for a TP to be discovered in the same province 8 times, that must be the quirk of battling the AI....

A way to improve your chances would be adding radar to your carriers (if you can have more then one brigade attached, I can't remember if that's the case in vanilla AoD), or attaching radar to your screens, to increase your chances of spotting & hitting enemy ships.

 

[bshirt73]

The success of naval battles is very hard to measure. One transport ship, by itself, has a relatively high chance of escaping, or not being discovered in the first place. It's a bit of an inverted logic... As the TP has high visibility, it has a high chance of being discovered at a very high range (normally the maximum 200km), meaning it starts out of range of all enemy units, including carriers! This slowly decreases as the battle progresses, but it tends to give enough time for the transport ship to escape. Another factor is if the transport ship is led by a "Blockade Runner", then it has a high chance of not being discovered at all. It would also be interesting to know how good your fleet positioning was at this time.

That said, I'm not sure how it's possible for a TP to be discovered in the same province 8 times, that must be the quirk of battling the AI....

A way to improve your chances would be adding radar to your carriers (if you can have more then one brigade attached, I can't remember if that's the case in vanilla AoD), or attaching radar to your screens, to increase your chances of spotting & hitting enemy ships.

Yes sir. It could very well just be a AI fluke error. I don't know. But I admit it really pissed me off as it continually stopped my Army loaded transports from advancing them to Vietnam.

Adding another radar to the Carriers? I'm humiliated to know that might be even possible. Egads, I've got to learn that ultra fast. If it's not possible, what does "attaching radar to your screens" mean? Do you mean adding a radar to a nearby island or something?

Hey, thank you so very much for adding some possible assets that I wasn't even aware of. I greatly appreciate your quite possible ideas!

 

[bshirt73]

Well, it is not so that you need them all time.

If your supply consumers are at home you donnot need 1000 transports. If your supply consumers are in great britain, then they are supplied by the UK. And while they are resting few transports are needed. Depending on how exactly your organize your supply chains 535 transports can suffice. Use few supply depots, but let them be relative big, so there is some reserve for the expected variances in consumption. Organize your supply consuming activities in a matter that is safe to not exceed the capacity of your supply chains.

The later is major concern even if no oversea transports are needed. When playing Germany or Soviet Union you want to avoid that all your supply consuming activies cause supply consumption peaks at the same time and thus a massive tc-overload. In the short term such a massive tc-overload does not hurt much, but if maintained over several days you accumulate a lack of supplies that really hurts your fighting effiency. You may need to let almost all units rest so they can resupply. Keep in mind that during rest supply consumption is lower and without tc-overload supply ontake is higher. So the effect on the net ontake of supplies is significant.

If the situation allows it you want to just slightly underutilize your available tc and therefore alternate between what units rest and what units engange in combat or even just movement. But this is more theory, in practize you may not always have the liberty to optimize in this specific manner due to more pressing concerns.

That's a damn fine post Pang. Very well stated sir. I think I just have the need to grasp the variables needed for competent supply action. While playing the USA there surely is the need! I'll be checking this out bigtime.

Thanks again Pang!!

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Yes sir. It could very well just be a AI fluke error. I don't know. But I admit it really pissed me off as it continually stopped my Army loaded transports from advancing them to Vietnam.

Adding another radar to the Carriers? I'm humiliated to know that might be even possible. Egads, I've got to learn that ultra fast. If it's not possible, what does "attaching radar to your screens" mean? Do you mean adding a radar to a nearby island or something?

Hey, thank you so very much for adding some possible assets that I wasn't even aware of. I greatly appreciate your quite possible ideas!

Ah, you had transport ships in your fleet when you spotted the enemy transport ship? That answers your conundrum! Naval positioning is awful when you have transports in your fleet, making it very hard to hit any enemy ships when in combat with them.

As in attaching the naval brigade radar to your light cruisers/destroyers that are protecting your carriers. You would add them during production, or you can produce the brigades separate to the ships (which is more IC-efficient, but more micro-management too). Again, I'm not sure on carriers. I play a mod where you can equip them with 3 naval brigades, they might only be limited to one on 'vanilla' AoD.

 

[bshirt73]

Ah, you had transport ships in your fleet when you spotted the enemy transport ship? That answers your conundrum! Naval positioning is awful when you have transports in your fleet, making it very hard to hit any enemy ships when in combat with them.

As in attaching the naval brigade radar to your light cruisers/destroyers that are protecting your carriers. You would add them during production, or you can produce the brigades separate to the ships (which is more IC-efficient, but more micro-management too). Again, I'm not sure on carriers. I play a mod where you can equip them with 3 naval brigades, they might only be limited to one on 'vanilla' AoD.

Wow. Well, actually the transports were cruising through my Carrier fleet on the route to Vietnam. But I suppose that's the same thing as being in their fleet? Or even if merging through the same ocean location as the Carrier fleet? Haha....well I'll be damned. Amazing!!

How about that! I learn something every day. I surely didn't know having any transports around causes horrible Naval positioning. Excellent information Mr_BOnarpte.......THANK YOU sir!!

PS.....You can bet the ranch I won't forget that!

 

[bshirt73]

Ah, you had transport ships in your fleet when you spotted the enemy transport ship? That answers your conundrum! Naval positioning is awful when you have transports in your fleet, making it very hard to hit any enemy ships when in combat with them.

As in attaching the naval brigade radar to your light cruisers/destroyers that are protecting your carriers. You would add them during production, or you can produce the brigades separate to the ships (which is more IC-efficient, but more micro-management too). Again, I'm not sure on carriers. I play a mod where you can equip them with 3 naval brigades, they might only be limited to one on 'vanilla' AoD.

My kind sir. One more question to bother you with. Please help me with "produce the brigades separate to the ships".???? That's a new one for me. What does that mean sir? With the mod you're using you can produce like three radar brigades for a ship? Is that right?

 

[bshirt73]

Pang;

Please forgive me for boring you yet again. But Wow!!

Haha, I started a new game playing the USA (for using the excellent insights from you two) and low & behold, believe it or not, the communist Soviets attacked the Nazis in February of 1938!!! Lol!!!

If that doesn't blow your mind enough, the Nazis are kicking the living sh*t out of the communists! They've almost instantly steam-rolled the commies by capturing Moscow & Leningrad already (now late March of 1938).

Hey, I just LOVE the variables you folks have installed in this terrific game. Never ever boring!!

Great job Pang!!!

PS.....5/04/40 the Russians surrender!

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Wow. Well, actually the transports were cruising through my Carrier fleet on the route to Vietnam. But I suppose that's the same thing as being in their fleet? Or even if merging through the same ocean location as the Carrier fleet? Haha....well I'll be damned. Amazing!!

How about that! I learn something every day. I surely didn't know having any transports around causes horrible Naval positioning. Excellent information Mr_BOnarpte.......THANK YOU sir!!

PS.....You can bet the ranch I won't forget that!

If ships are in the same ocean location then yes it is likely they'd be dragged into battle there, especially when they have high visibility (transport ships have the highest visibility of all ships).

It depends on your naval doctrines, but you can see your current naval positioning of all ships under Technology/Overview, see below an example:-

My kind sir. One more question to bother you with. Please help me with "produce the brigades separate to the ships".???? That's a new one for me. What does that mean sir? With the mod you're using you can produce like three radar brigades for a ship? Is that right?

I'm pretty sure you can build radar & capital radar for ships in vanilla AoD too, I'm just not sure carriers can have more then one brigade in vanilla AoD (meaning you'd always just want CAG attached if they can't hold anything more).

You need to research Basic Decimetic Radar Warning Sites (in Industry techs) to be able to build radar brigades for your ships.

Please see what that looks like on the build screen below, both for carriers (if possible in vanilla), and for light cruisers & destroyers:-

Carriers (all other capital ships too)

Light Cruisers (destroyers too)

 

[Pang Bingxun]

In vanilla carriers have only CAG. No radar brigade for them. Still Carriers have best sea detection available.

Optimizing sea detection is a major concern. Having the best brigades for that job helps.

 

[bshirt73]

If ships are in the same ocean location then yes it is likely they'd be dragged into battle there, especially when they have high visibility (transport ships have the highest visibility of all ships).

It depends on your naval doctrines, but you can see your current naval positioning of all ships under Technology/Overview, see below an example:-

I'm pretty sure you can build radar & capital radar for ships in vanilla AoD too, I'm just not sure carriers can have more then one brigade in vanilla AoD (meaning you'd always just want CAG attached if they can't hold anything more).

You need to research Basic Decimetic Radar Warning Sites (in Industry techs) to be able to build radar brigades for your ships.

Please see what that looks like on the build screen below, both for carriers (if possible in vanilla), and for light cruisers & destroyers:-

Carriers (all other capital ships too)

Light Cruisers (destroyers too)

Oh yes sir. I have "one" radar for 1/2 of all my destroyers. All of my light cruisers, heavy cruisers, Battle cruisers & Battleships have a radar. Just one though. No radar for my Carriers. I keep upgrading radar status up to date pretty highly.

My kind sir, I've never understood the Naval positioning. The "35<>80"......what does that really mean? I greatly appreciate you & Pang being kind enough to help me forever learning more details for this ultra superb WW2 game. It's big fun to grasp new insights for this game!

 

[Pang Bingxun]

My kind sir, I've never understood the Naval positioning. The "35<>80"......what does that really mean?

I probably donnot understand it fully either, but seems to be a probability for ships to actually hit the enemy. If positioning is low, then your ships may be in firing range but donnot sucessfully fire on an enemy vessel or even fire upon on a friendly vessel.

To hit an enemy vessel this enemy vessel needs to be detected, it needs to be in firing range and then positioning is chance roll of hitting it. It is quite possible to miss, especially during night.