Question for devs: What is the biggest problem with infantry?

[AngeliDiAvanti]

As much as we would all love to see Aerotech added, I think that the devs shouldn't do so before they have figured out how to do it without breaking the balancing.



As far as I understood it, the devs want to add infantry in the long term, however due to unspecified problems they haven't bothered to progress beyond the "scribbled-notes"-stage yet.

Which problems are holding specifically infantry back?

- Lack of devs/time/money?

- Afraid of visual performance-issues when adding an infantry-model that looks like two dozen realistic infantry-men?

- No idea how to handle the visual gore when Mechs shoot and stomp squishy humans? Afraid that the gore could threaten Battletech's age-rating?

- No idea how to program that Mech and infantry are in the same hex?



I don't see balancing as a problem. In fact, adding infantry would close the circle on a rock-paper-scissors style balancing:
Medium defeats Light.
Heavy defeats Medium.
Assault defeats Heavy.
Infantry defeats Assault.
Light defeats Infantry.

 

[Simon1812]

it is a tricky one indeed, the way I would go around is with "token infantry" like for example buildings like pillboxes or bunkers, trenches, structures that would aid somehow infantry while engaging mechs.

though Im hoping to see elementals and proto armor implemented in the not so far future, that's the only way I could see infantry being relevant....those count as infantry right?

 

[Justin Kase]

As to general infantry - it is a tricky situation, as it would be nice to have, but it doesn't add a lot to gameplay in most situations. Cities are where they would really shine - much like an Urbie.

Similar to @Amechwarrior 's suggestion, I had always thought about having buildings that have 'infantry in them', basically short short range turrets - but I'd also reduce detection range so you don't see them and level the building

Inferno Rounds would also be an essential - which would actually be easier to implement for dedicated Inferno troops that don't have to switch ammo.

Jump Infantry might be a bit more mobile force

It would also be nice if there was a way to have them embark / disembark from vehicles.

 

[AngeliDiAvanti]

Make them only detectable within 90m base, but RangeFinders could increase that distance by 1 dot per + level of upgrade.

I thought of something similar.

I think this probably a likely implementation. It also keeps unit # down as they don't need to appear unit and take a turn until they are triggered, they would still have to be loaded initially, as the game loads all possible units first and stores them far away from the player's map space.

If we can have dropsites where a dropship spawns Mechs, then we can have "ambush-sites" where the infantry doesn't get spawned until the player comes close. That mechanism would ensure that there aren't unnecessary infantry-units on the field.

It would also be nice if there was a way to have them embark / disembark from vehicles.

I think, that would just overly complicate things for now. Motorized infantry has their vehicles implictly in their unit-profile.

 

[JibSail]

These are all great ideas, but an ambush in a turn based game is a really hard thing to balance.

By balance, I mean that you have to implement an ambush like this without making it feel unfair to the player.

Usually, the unit triggering the ambush, does so in it's turn, so you'd end up taking a full round of damage before being able to do anything.

Still a great idea and definitely worth more exploration, just might need some clever mechanic that makes it feel more fair, without turning it into a cake walk.

 

[Timaeus]

Usually, the unit triggering the ambush, does so in it's turn, so you'd end up taking a full round of damage before being able to do anything.

Just pointing it out that this is more or less what is currently happening with reinforcements.

 

[JibSail]

Just pointing it out that this is more or less what is currently happening with reinforcements.

Haha. Yes. I believe there are entire threads dedicated to this very thing.

Reworking the spawn mechanic:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ad-of-condition-based-reinforcements.1145509/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...eaking-the-kill-everything-mentality.1143494/

Balancing:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/stop-reinforcements-from-cheating.1140529/

 

[Simon1812]

These are all great ideas, but an ambush in a turn based game is a really hard thing to balance.

By balance, I mean that you have to implement an ambush like this without making it feel unfair to the player.

Usually, the unit triggering the ambush, does so in it's turn, so you'd end up taking a full round of damage before being able to do anything.

Still a great idea and definitely worth more exploration, just might need some clever mechanic that makes it feel more fair, without turning it into a cake walk.

-...well yes....that's what an ambush is supposed to be about, it is supposed to be overkill, out of seemingly nowhere, fast and furious. it is meant to take away whatever advantage the target might have, while minimizing the ambusher's loses, an ambush is not meant to offer a "fair fight"...otherwise you are doing it wrong.

a "full round of damage" doesn't sound so bad ... for an ambush anyway

 

[JibSail]

-...well yes....that's what an ambush is supposed to be about, it is supposed to be overkill, out of seemingly nowhere, fast and furious. it is meant to take away whatever advantage the target might have, while minimizing the ambusher's loses, an ambush is not meant to offer a "fair fight"...otherwise you are doing it wrong.

a "full round of damage" doesn't sound so bad ... for an ambush anyway

That wasn't the take away I was aiming for.

I meant that it should feel fair to the player. Most of the time it's just a matter of answering the question: "what did I do wrong?"

Whether or not the mechanic is logically fair isn't what makes the mechanic hard to balance.

On that note, still think an infantry ambush is a great idea. It would add some variance to the existing ambush and reinforcement mechanics.

 

[SpenReyn]

If you want a decent illustration of how effective infantry is vs Battlemechs go back and play Cresent Hawks Inception, have your character get an SRM launcher, then when it comes time for the invasion take the locust and get it shot out from underneath you. Then treck on foot to the main city and you'll certainly encounter some Kurita Mechs along the way. Fight the usual one mech with your one guy with an SRM launcher and see what the result is.

I do understand that an SRM platoon would be more like half of an SRM carrier, but I'm firmly in the camp that it wouldn't add to the game, just make for a 'not fun at all' annoyance on the battlefield.

 

[Confector Tyrannis]

If you want a decent illustration of how effective infantry is vs Battlemechs go back and play Cresent Hawks Inception, have your character get an SRM launcher,

1st my all time FAVORITE BT Universe game is Crescent Hawk's Inception
2ndly get an inferno launcher, will gooify any ground combatants and easily handle any mechs you have to deal with while on foot
3rd, invest in the blue chip low yield stocks at the first bank you can get to.. after doin that walk around outside to the right and then up into the lil cul-de-sac behind the bank and tape a movement key down (walk into the wall repeatedly) and walk away from the computer for an hour or two.

When you come back you be riiiiiiiiichhhhh