[Question] De Jure Empires in HIP

[crabby654]

Hey all! I first off want to say I totally love HIP and how modular the install process is while installing the mod.

Now before I get into my issue and idea I want to say that I DO NOT install SWMH because the main version of the mod (without the india submod) also cuts off parts of india and asia and I want the full map.

Ok now here is my issue. One of my goals when I start up is to go for the empire in the region I am starting in. As an example I like to start as Wales and want to create Brittania/UK but there is no Empire or Kingdom for that option at all (without SWMH). There also seems to be only 3 empires, Byzantine, Persion and HRE. Is this a historical accurate thing? I could swear that Charlemagne's france was considered an Empire as well?

The other issue I am finding is when I click on "Show de jure ties" to see what this current kingdom/duchy I am apart of is in, it shows a Blank Empire which encompasses like 80% of the map, but it has no name or coat of arms.

It's very possible I am waaay off base with all this, but should there more empires in the base game (with and withouth SWMH)?

 

[Toa Kraka]

It's very possible I am waaay off base with all this, but should there more empires in the base game (with and withouth SWMH)?

If you use the "Find Title" window, the other empires (Britannia, Hispania, etc.) still can be formed--they're just titular, rather than de jure, since they haven't previously existed at that point in history. (I think there's a customization decision, called something like "Toggle Ahistorical Empires", that you can use to make them de jure again.)

The "Empire of Null" is a workaround for some bugs that occur when a kingdom isn't part of a de jure empire.

 

[crabby654]

If you use the "Find Title" window, the other empires (Britannia, Hispania, etc.) still can be formed--they're just titular, rather than de jure, since they haven't previously existed at that point in history. (I think there's a customization decision, called something like "Toggle Ahistorical Empires", that you can use to make them de jure again.)

The "Empire of Null" is a workaround for some bugs that occur when a kingdom isn't part of a de jure empire.

Oh wow holy crap, its been a LONG time since I played vanilla CK2 so I am not used empires being titular like this. Thank you, now to check out the empires!...out of curiosity what does it really mean? How would I go about forming Britannia if it's not De Jure?

 

[Toa Kraka]

out of curiosity what does it really mean? How would I go about forming Britannia if it's not De Jure?

A titular title has no de jure land, so you don't need to hold 51% or 67% of its de jure counties, since there aren't any. Instead, you only need to satisfy the title's special requirements. (I think you also must have the title's capital county in your realm--but I couldn't say for certain, since I always remove all capitals in my copy of HIP.)

You can use the "Find Title" window to check the specific requirements for each title by clicking on the title and then mousing over the grayed-out "Create Title" button.

 

[crabby654]

A titular title has no de jure land, so you don't need to hold 51% or 67% of its de jure counties, since there aren't any. Instead, you only need to satisfy the title's special requirements. (I think you also must have the title's capital county in your realm--but I couldn't say for certain, since I always remove all capitals in my copy of HIP.)

You can use the "Find Title" window to check the specific requirements for each title by clicking on the title and then mousing over the grayed-out "Create Title" button.

Oh interesting. So basically once you meet the requirements for a Titular Title, you can basically take whatever land for it with no de jure land requirements. Interesting hmm.

 

[Toa Kraka]

with no de jure land requirements

You do still need to own the "de jure" capital, though--e.g., London for Britannia.

 

[crabby654]

You do still need to own the "de jure" capital, though--e.g., London for Britannia.

Right ya, I meant having to X% of a region. I do wish it was slightly easier to show a map of empires, but oh well. I feel better knowing I just missed looking at titular titles

 

[dskod1]

@crabby654
Forming any empire requires at least 2 kingdoms, 3 for forming a made up one (via decision I believe). As an example forming the Empire of France requires that you hold the kingdom of burgundy as well as control paris.

Also, there should be an option if you are playing with EMF to enable a-historical dejure empires through customization decision at the start of the game. At least there is for the SWMH version.

 

[zijistark]

Yes, the day-1 scenario customization decision 'Add Ahistorical Empires' makes all your familiar, ahistorically de jure empires, well, de jure again.

 

[majesty8]

Yes, the day-1 scenario customization decision 'Add Ahistorical Empires' makes all your familiar, ahistorically de jure empires, well, de jure again.

Would it be possible to add the empire of Great Armenia (Mets Hayk) in Armenia+Al-Jazira+Arran+Antioch to the existing ahistorical empires? There's currently a hole there, which is rather annoying (to me, at least).

I'm aware that it's highly anachronistic, but it can't be more ahistorical than Britannia.

 

[crabby654]

Adding on to that...I would totally love it if the Ahistorical part of EMF was a separate install module

 

[Vethantis]

I'm not sure what you're asking for, crabby. If you click one button when you start a game it's all right there. Why would we need a separate install module for it? It's far more convenient being able to decide for yourself whether to turn it on at the beginning of each game.

 

[crabby654]

I'm not sure what you're asking for, crabby. If you click one button when you start a game it's all right there. Why would we need a separate install module for it? It's far more convenient being able to decide for yourself whether to turn it on at the beginning of each game.

Well since I created this thread I've actually starting playing with EMF turned on. I was more alluding to the fact that I personally would like EMF itself to me more module based while installing HIP. Kinda like "Do you want to Install Bless With Luck module". But the more I think about, it might be a bit to micro managey. I just love mod customization.

 

[zijistark]

Well since I created this thread I've actually starting playing with EMF turned on. I was more alluding to the fact that I personally would like EMF itself to me more module based while installing HIP. Kinda like "Do you want to Install Bless With Luck module". But the more I think about, it might be a bit to micro managey. I just love mod customization.

If seeing 'Bless With Luck' on singleplayer diplo-action menus bothers you that much, you should simply disable it yourself. Delete 'decisions/emf_lucky_ruler_decisions.txt' from the compiled HIP mod folder.

 

[Sirrobert1]

Don't we also get the rules soon, which will enable all these things to be toggled before the game?

 

[Rylock]

Don't we also get the rules soon, which will enable all these things to be toggled before the game?

Yes, although there is a point where the team needs to be willing to do the work to make something optional. Just because someone has decided they need even more options added to a mod with an already-ridiculous amount of customization options doesn't mean the team's going to leap to provide them. That's a point where you need to do the work yourself.

 

[Sirrobert1]

Yes, although there is a point where the team needs to be willing to do the work to make something optional. Just because someone has decided they need even more options added to a mod with an already-ridiculous amount of customization options doesn't mean the team's going to leap to provide them. That's a point where you need to do the work yourself.

True, I was thinking more about the question for Ahistorical empires being a separate install module

 

[2ndPorphyry]

True, I was thinking more about the question for Ahistorical empires being a separate install module

I think that's what Rylock was talking about. It's only one little click at the beginning of a game. Really, how is that any different than typing a "y" or "n" when you install the mod, except that it offers you more flexibility within the same install config?

 

[crabby654]

So I actually created this thread before I knew the difference of titular titles and de jure empires. I also didn't fully understand how the customization options worked before I put some time into HIP. But it actually works totally fine the way it is with the customization options.

 

[Sirrobert1]

I think that's what Rylock was talking about. It's only one little click at the beginning of a game. Really, how is that any different than typing a "y" or "n" when you install the mod, except that it offers you more flexibility within the same install config?

Well for one, you'd have to reinstall the mod every time you wanted to switch customization options.
Also someone has to make that change, which takes time