Question concerning Indonesia and Siberia

[Dr Rare]

I have been playing around and checking these revolter countries out in the different mods and i wonder whether people had noticed the same things as me .

When you liberate Siberia/grant independence to it as the soviets,save and then reload and play as Siberia i realized that the entire region has zero manpower in all of its provinces in Vanilla and CORE?Obviously this destroys any fun playing as Siberia.I wonder should this be changed or tweaked at least the capital should have some manpower?
I know its cold and not densely populated but some tiny countries in hoi1 have more manpower than the whole of Siberia?Of course this would in actual fact add extra manpower to the soviets in game without Siberia being released.

My next question concerns Indonesia which you can release as playing as the Netherlands.In vanilla it has lots of manpower but in
CORE none at all??...Also when you play as Indonesia in CORE and vanilla there is no IC at all is like a bug you start of with a bit then it all disappears to zero?Is this a problem because all the convoys needed and previously used by the dutch are gone???

So should they be tweaked to have some manpower just a little to exist or make them worth puppeting??

I know these are not critical game issues or bugs but i wondered what other players views are???

I am interested in this for future tweaks and modding purposes such as adding a post war Dutch Indonesia revolt/war etc etc

Dr

 

[comac]

If Siberia or Indonesia were created by event, could you not edit the event to provide the manpower in the provinces that need it? Or perhaps write a manpower event when independence is achieved adding manpower as necessary.

command = { type = province_manpower which = 1780 value = 10 }

I have yet to try modding events however but provided the triggers were written correctly this method should provide some fixing of the problem.

(Culled above command line out of the USA No Standing Armies in time of Peace event from TGW 1.1 and edited it for Batavia, Indonesia).

I would think that you want to avoid allowing the Dutch colonial manpower to create huge standing armies and not give the Soviets even more! Additional manpower should be a result of revolting and not a feature before the revolt in my opinion.
Cheers
Chris

 

[Dr Rare]

Cool thanks for answer,food for thought perhaps a little events txt for Indonesia and Siberia with "if exists" events same as other revolter countries that appear ingame just without historical events just manpower set ups!! COOL and might be possible!!

Thanks

All the same there is some weirdness with Indonesia i think it might have something to do with the convoys collapsing,but i am not sure,they have no IC even though there is industry there?(it starts of low and than just drops away to zero?)?Siberia IC works ok.
Release Indonesia save Then reload and play as Indonesia and you might see what i mean??

Dr?

 

[Dr Rare]

All the same there is some weirdness with Indonesia i think it might have something to do with the convoys collapsing,but i am not sure,they have no IC even though there is industry there?(it starts of low and than just drops away to zero?)?Siberia IC works ok.
Release Indonesia save Then reload and play as Indonesia and you might see what i mean??

Dr?

Right well i released indonesia and saved the game then reloaded and played as Indonesia.Is this the problem are you not meant to be able to do this???

Anyway same thing no IC even though provinces have industry?so i build some industry,no effect industry increases in province but still no IC.So i wait 5 years with no IC until i have enough transports to replace dutch convoys to see if this is the problem,but no effect still?All the time though many resources build up 99999 rubber.

Whats it all about is it a bug??? Are you just not meant to reload and play as new countries as they emerge ingame??Does this always happen?Say if you play as Croatia or Ukraine ingame after they appear??

Does anyone know??

 

[unmerged(61236)]

Indonesia, like many puppets (and even many minors) lacks enough coal to operate its economy. So despite an overabundance of things like oil and rubber, there will not be enough coal to run any of the IC. This creates the secondary problem of not having any resources to build convoys.

You can try to balance this off on the world market (check your resource flow on the 3rd screen of the status menus) but that will only go so far. Once you're pas 1941 or so, the value of rubber will bottom out b/c the big consumers will have the oil-rubber conversion techs. This leads to a shortage of coal, which ruins any potential for economic viability.

On top of that you have HOI's screwy rules regarding islands. This will cripple an archipelgo like Indonesia. First of all, manpower only flows through connected land provinces, so your new country will never have enough MP to do anything (only from the 2 territories on the main island and that's it). Secondly, resources between islands require convoys, and you don't inherit those when a country is puppeted.

All in all, the thing that really makes the released puppets impossible to play is the lack of commanders. Even if you overcome all the other problems, you can never do anything with their armies (except roll them into an ally's stacks) b/c all you have are 0 star Mj. Generals that can never gain any experience.

If you really really really want to play a game as Indonesia, I'd suggest running the 'show id' cheat (or something like that) in the F12 console to figure out the province numbers of the main island of Indonesia (where the capital is). Then go into the save game and bump up the resources and IC of just those provinces to some level necessary to make them interesting to play with (50 IC and enough resources?).

You'll still have the leaders issue either way though...

- Commander Keen -

 

[Dr Rare]

Moment of clarity!!

Thanks CK,for your excellent reply,you have confirmed what i discovered through my testing.After waiting about 5 years for enough transports to be generated to replace the old dutch convoys,still the IC didn't go up.Because of the coal issue you mentioned i think.
Well i feel happy now its all worked out.

Following my experiments i have been working out a couple of things for the leader and ministers issue for country's without them.

Firstly i have a ministers blank ,so to speak which has black,blue and red shadow Governments(all undistinguished suits)
now all revolter's can have rudimentary govts (also this means people can add to the blanks and add there own ministers if they research them) also diplomatic influence would still then work on such country's swaying them and when puppeted they would have fascist communist or democratic govts etc.

Theoretically

Which made me think you could do the same thing for the leaders,you could just make a leader file with random names or called 1st corps commander 2nd corps commander etc or Army commander 1 or Shadow leader 1 etc .You could have one General 2star which you could promote to a 1star field Marshall,then a Lt Gen 3star and a smattering of level 1 or 2star Mj.Gen's with some basic or no traits(1commando,1logistics,1panzer etc).This could be renumbered and tagged for every missing country and or revolter and thus 0 star Mj.Generals that can never gain any experience would be banished from the game.!!!??

Theoretically I will test both when i have time....

Is it worthy of another project for the list?????

Dr

Edit.Tested the ministers and they work!!!

 

[unmerged(61236)]

Well that's definitely a step in the right direction anyway.

Puppets can actually be quite funny, because they gain whatever tech levels you have when you spin them off... I once spun out South Korea as the USA in the late game and I was amused to realize that they now had the A-bomb.

Getting back on topic, even if you solve the leader issues, you'll still have the resource problem to deal with. In the past I've addressed this by boosting coal/steel production on the puppets territory by map editing, but this is unbelievably tedious.


- Commander Keen -

 

[jdrou]

Giving all countries a functional economy was one of the goals of Mithel's Starfire mod: http://www.mnstarfire.com/ww2/hoi/recommendations.html

No country's economy should "meltdown". (i.e. initial raw materials should closely supply the initial IC production of the country.)
Minor countries should be more fun to play. This means the player should have more decisions they can reasonably make. This does not mean that minor countries are more powerful.

 

[Dr Rare]

Giving all countries a functional economy was one of the goals of Mithel's Starfire mod: http://www.mnstarfire.com/ww2/hoi/recommendations.html

Ahh i remember starfire!I will look at all the files again and play spot the difference!! theres some good modding info there also .

jdrou glad to see you are stalking the hoi1 halls again,perhaps you could check out a couple of my hard questions in the modding section!!!

For all you kids out there if you are playing Hoi1 without jdrous Fix-it-Yourself Pack for HoI 1.06c (updated 11/14/05) then your dummies.

Its a Hoi1 Anthology fixit pack now,
Everyone with anthology needs the Fix-it-Yourself Pack for HoI 1.06c also!!!!

Dr Rare