Question about Vassal Levy size (post Conclave)

[alanschu]

So I'm trying to figure out what is going on with my vassal levy size and I can't quite make sense of it. I attached


My brother Gotthard has 100 opinion with me, and I am the Duke of Austria (vassal of Bavaria) with my capital in Osterreich.

My current noble obligations have -20% max levies (so basically it says I will get 80%).

Now I sort of make sense in that Gotthard has 320, but only provides me 60, and then I get 80% of that 60. I have can only guess why it's only 60, however! The CKII Wiki page talks about levies from Capital Duchies, Kingdoms, Realms, and all, and it seems like it's the following:

I get 18.75% from:
320 * 0.25 (outside Realm) * 0.75 (Capital Duchy - and I guess technically they are "in my duchy" since they are my vassal and my primary title is Duke of Austria)

First off... is this correct? It fits well enough that I assume it is!


With that though, assessing my other vassals things don't line up.

Nurnberg is 144/495 (29%).

I also have a Barony in Znojmo (37% -> This one seems very low given my vassal in my Capital Duchy directly...)

Does the Opinion influence the number in parenthesis? Because I'd expect maybe Capital Kingdom and Capital Duchy modifiers from Nurnberg.



Bonus questions.
1) How is the City of Linz 156/116? Does my Marshall make a difference there?
2) Does the comparison for Papal relation apply for Temple levies too? (I know I don't get taxes. I forgot to check when I took screenshot and am done my lunch break now.... )


Thanks all!


EDIT: Answer to bonus #2 is yes it impacts levies too.

 

[Asiak]

I think, think de-jure effects it, but isn't mentioned anywhere. I think, this is based only on similar observations. And I think it was Arumba who first put the thought in my mind but even he didn't prove it.

I think that a count who is your vassal and de-jure your vassal will provide you more levy then a vassal count of equal opinion and laws who is not your de-jure vassal. And that this is confusedly not mentioned anywhere.

But again I cannot prove these things and I could be wrong.

 

[CrabHelmet]

First number (e.g., 60) is what is available to you before laws/opinion are considered. Second number is what is available to him. First number is not dependent on the second number (although they are related). He will have a number of vassals underneath him, and they might have very poor relations with him, so they don't count for much to the levy he can raise. But, that doesn't affect the levy you can raise. That's why for Linz, the first number is bigger than the second number - they must have some modifier that reduces their direct levy, which doesn't affect your ability to raise a liege levy.

If you add up the levies of all the holdings under Odenburg, you will find there are 480 troops available, I think. Your brother can only get 75% of these, so his numbers will say 320. This is because he'll have a 100% of his own, but probably only ~60% from the others two holdings. But his vassals opinion of him don't affect the troops you can raise, which is 480 * 0.5 (base modifier) * 0.25 (Odenburg is in a different empire to your capital) = 60.

 

[alanschu]

Cool thanks. I definitely understand that the first number is what I get before laws/opinion. I guess I was expecting a vassal count to provide more but did learn that being outside of my realm was a huge factor. The math you list does make sense. I'll do some poking around with those values of my other relatives to see if I can make sense out of them along the lines you describe. I also realize that yeah, there's a 0.5 multiplier in there too no matter what (totally missed that on the wiki!).

It's a fresh province that likely has no upgrades (which comes out to 470 based on wiki values which haven't been updated in some time. I could easily see an extra 10 existing somewhere now). By this account, Simon in Nurnberg likely has 576 levies in the castle/city/temple of which I have 25% (Base Value 50% * Capital Kingdom 50%) maximum. That helps a ton (and can really incentivize expanding in your du jure realms, or relocating your capital).


Though the baron level vassals still seem a bit off. Strackvas of Znojmo should only have his own personal levy available to him, and Christopher is the mayor of Linz which I believe is in my capital county and shouldn't have any vassals that I'm aware of!. I'll see if removing my Marshall makes any difference with Linz, and poke around with Znojmo. It's possible the Martial ranking of the holding owners causes some difference too! I'll investigate more when I get home from work!


I'm curious how the realm obligations work too. If I have a different law than my vassal if that makes a difference. Stuff to think about. Thanks again!

 

[alanschu]

Ah here we go.

Mousing over the numbers Gottfried has exactly 479 maximum possible levy (including their martial bonus). That explains my 60.

City of Linz has depleted levies for whatever reason. So it seems like my potential levy is based on the maximum,which makes sense since they got rid of the "cheat my vassal/lord out of levies" some time ago. Their max levy is 311 (116 current) and my potential is 50% of that, 156. Znojmo gives what they should (0.5 * 0.75). So yay!


Simon was a bit trickier but I think I figured it out.
Nurnberg max levies:
473 Castle
146 City
536 Temple

Adding up the raw numbers in the tooltip and dividing by the 60% Simon must give me, gives 144.375. Which is 12.5% or (50% * 50% * 50%). I'm guessing that since my title is Duke, even in the same Kingdom as me means nothing because he's technically "not in my realm." So it's actually 50% * 25%! Confirmed that my new city in Karnten could only possibly give me 16, which is 12.5% of the maximum levy size. This helps explain why his level seemed to go up by a good chunk (roughly double!) when I declared war on my Liege for the Kingdom of Bavaria, while Gotthard didn't change at all.


Thanks! Shared my findings just in case anyone else was curious as they come across it. Unsurprisingly the wiki is accurate I just made some unfortunate assumptions when I applied the formula wrong.