Question about "starting at any date" feauture

[Kliwarrior]

I'm quite curious about the "starting at any date" feature.
Someone could reply "wait a couple of weeks and you'll see.." but anyway I try to ask.....

Ok, I want to start at Jan. 1st, 1705 (nice year, isn't it? Halley announced his results about his comet.. )

I understand that inside some file is written that the correct ruler for England is Queen Anne, Philip V for Spain etc..

I assume also that is somewhere written that the "usual" techlevel for early 18th cent. is so-and-so

But HOW are country borders handled ?
Does the game take the "most near" prebuild scenario? ( 1701? 1753? )
What about relationship and alliances?

ciao

 

[unmerged(6777)]

The history files contain all of the information about borders, alliances, marriages, etc and (as you guessed) the technology levels are extrapolated by date. In theory, everything should be fairly close to reality regardless of which date you select.

 

[EnderV]

The history files contain all of the information about borders, alliances, marriages, etc and (as you guessed) the technology levels are extrapolated by date. In theory, everything should be fairly close to reality regardless of which date you select.

How about armies?
Will for example on November 9 Bohemia be occupied by Austria with Tilly as a leader of Austrian army and Frederick V retreating somewhere?

EDIT: When I wrote Bohemia, I meant the province, not the country.
V.

 

[Kliwarrior]

The history files contain all of the information about borders, alliances, marriages, etc

WOW! Amazing!!
Thanks for the quick replay Mr.T !!

 

[Alerias]

How about armies?
Will for example on November 9 Bohemia be occupied by Austria with Tilly as a leader of Austrian army and Frederick V retreating somewhere?

V.

Leaders will be historical, but im pretty sure army positions wont be accurate at all. Just having armies and navies at historical strength or so seems iffy to me.

Most likely every country will have troops available based on its current national strength when you start a game.

Just guessing of course

 

[unmerged(6777)]

Leaders will be historical, but im pretty sure army positions wont be accurate at all. Just having armies and navies at historical strength or so seems iffy to me.

Most likely every country will have troops available based on its current national strength when you start a game.

Just guessing of course

That's correct. There is simply no way we could have researched correct army sizes and locations for all countries in every possible starting date (and much of the information wouldn't be available for many countries anyway). The leaders will be accurate, and if Austria occupied (instead of simply besieged) Bohemia then it will begin with the province owned by Bohemia and occupied by Austria. Army sizes are extrapolated and placement is handled by AI placement routines (which are good, but not always 100% where you'd like them).

 

[EnderV]

Well, I picked Bohemia, and the date because of reason - 30 years war. For me, the claim of "start at any date with (vaguelly) historicaly correct world" would lose a lot if (to give another example) on 24 Feb 1645 Lennart Torstensson wasn't occupying province of Bohemia with Austrian army retreating.
That said, I don't expect every army everywhere (especially outside Europe, after all it is Europa Universalis) to be correct. But 30 Year war, Cortez, Pizzaro etc. not being where they should be and just having the countries at war sort of defeats the historicity for me.
V.

 

[EnderV]

That's correct. There is simply no way we could have researched correct army sizes and locations for all countries in every possible starting date (and much of the information wouldn't be available for many countries anyway). The leaders will be accurate, and if Austria occupied (instead of simply besieged) Bohemia then it will begin with the province owned by Bohemia and occupied by Austria. Army sizes are extrapolated and placement is handled by AI placement routines (which are good, but not always 100% where you'd like them).

I'm not that much concerned about the army sizes (although it does matter a bit), as much as that if a province is occupied by Swedes who have no army anywhere near, it sort of defeats the purpose.

I fully agree that most of the army movements would be impossible to track to a day (even month sometimes), not to mention somewhere outside of Europe, but if one thing of history is modeled, not modeling the other one might break the first bit. Sometimes it doesn't matter, sometimes (as in examples I gave earlier, which I believe to be significant to overall history, not just local skirmishes or even larger battles with no long-term impact) it does.

I want to stress I don't mean any disrespect, and I fully realise the size of the task, nor do I want it changed (assuming it will be modable to create the situation as precise as possible in the bounds of the engine - if someone will have the will and free time to do it ).

I'd just be more careful with description of the historical accuracy of a "scenario" on a given date.

Thanks,
Vlad

 

[CatalanNation]

Judging by the explanations of MrT, it will be an excellent history resource center. I'm sure that if some education ministry of any state sees how it goes, will make a petition to Paradox to use it on the classes...

Just imagine, instead of those boring history books, be able to go to any date and play with these country... :rofl: Aaaah, NICE!!!!

 

[TheFlemishDuck]

I'm rather more worried with the tech level.As i understand one get a certain tech level for every tech for any date, but i doubt that tech progress will also be included, so you probably won't start with half a tech researched i presume?

If so, you could have the situation for ex that venice in 1488 starts with trade 2 and in 1489 it starts with trade 3 for ex., and i doubt that at 1488 you would then have trade 2 + 95% of trade 3 researched, rather than just simply trade 2. I wonder atleast how that will be handled.

 

[performer]

If everything is modable - will this "start file" be modable as well?

 

[Alerias]

If everything is modable - will this "start file" be modable as well?

definitely.

 

[rybka]

im very sceptic about this feature. i dont think it will have much to do with historical accuracy. imho it would be much better to set number of lets say 10 starting dates and research better those dates. imho it is just excuse to explain why "any" starting date will not be historically acccurate (too much work, i agree with this).
for example how the population changes in this "any" starting date? for sure it cant be extrapolated in any way, since the population changes were not monotonic.
i dont know how the release version will look like, but judging from mrT saxony aar even first starting date is not historically accurate.
i really hope noone will use it to teach history, eu2 would suit for this purpose much better

 

[Mats_SX]

I wonder how many different "starting positions" Paradox has modelled in; I mean in all those years this game will contain...

A short calculation: 1453-1789 gives *opening calculator* 336 years of gameplay which gives 122.640 days plus leap year-days.

I doubt Paradox would have the time or manpower to make 122.640 different starting positions :rofl: (OMG release date would be January 23rd 2107) but perhaps they've made... say 50? A complete guess but that would give *damn I closed the calculator* a different game situation every 2452nd day. That can't be correct... Ok they've must have made at least 200 starting positions? That gives us a different one every 613th day, a little more than every second year..? No way they've must have made 500 different? Giving a different every 245th day. That would make sense. Now the result at hand:

According to the above calculations (please, be welcome to criticize them, there lies nothing really heavy behind them) Paradox has given us 500 different starting positions... That's some damn research and at least I am/will be satisfied with this...

 

[hildoceras]

And while us, beta-testers were looking for these 500 unique positions for all the countries in Europe (we let Asia and the rest of the world in an infamous nothingness for lack of time and because we had to pay the planes to go to the local data centers), Johan and a handful of faithful companions wrote the programs, tested the AI, had new ideas every five seconds, played multiplayer, anihilated every bugs including these damn cockroaches in the kitchen and drank a lot of beer...

 

[Grubnessul]

I thought sweden was a country made of vodka & moose sausage... guess I´ve been to the ikea to much...

anyway 500 is really a lot, nice job Paradox

 

[Snake IV]

I agree with that some armies must be at the positions they where historiclly. For example, if I start a game the day before the siege of Vienna, then it is pretty bad if the Polish army digs in at the Swedish border in Courland.

 

[JaguarUSF]

You can start on ANY DAY from May 1453 to December 1789. So yes, there are about 122,640 starting dates available to choose from. Paradox has a set of history files that records all of the wars during the time period, and who owns each of the game's 1,000 or so land provinces every day for over 336 years. I think that's pretty damn impressive.

 

[Illiria]

You can start on ANY DAY from May 1453 to December 1789. So yes, there are about 122,640 starting dates available to choose from. Paradox has a set of history files that records all of the wars during the time period, and who owns each of the game's 1,000 or so land provinces every day for over 336 years. I think that's pretty damn impressive.

wow. that is impressive. this game is gonna be so much fun.

 

[Mats_SX]

You can start on ANY DAY from May 1453 to December 1789. So yes, there are about 122,640 starting dates available to choose from. Paradox has a set of history files that records all of the wars during the time period, and who owns each of the game's 1,000 or so land provinces every day for over 336 years. I think that's pretty damn impressive.

Well I am pretty confident in the majority of those 122.640 stating dates being equal to at least some other. I mean it's not likely the 15th of May 1528 is different from the 16th or 14th, but the lines are drawn at certain points and if it is a lot more than 500 (as you are implying, am I not right?) I too must admit at being seriously impressed. Heck I'm impressed already at 500!