Question about spice trade

[Bugnr01]

Is there a realistic chane for a indian or middle east nation to prevent the decline of spice tread from happening?
And if yes whats the best way to do so?

 

[InvictusLampada]

All the factors that can change a trade good price are listed here: http://www.eu4wiki.com/Trade_goods#Prices

So the best option I assume is to try and prevent anyone from reaching the criteria for the changes. Bare in mind that there's 2 major price changes for spices and if they both happen then it's still a net increase.

For reference:

Spice Trade requirements:
Non-Asian country with Western Tech group has at least 4 ports, has idea Quest for the New World, has discovered Cape of Good Hope, AND has either Straits of Johor, Ganges Delta, Sind, Comorin Cape, or Goa as an active trade node

Decline of the Spice trade requirements:
Two European Countries with 3 spice provinces each, year is 1600

Since the europeans will usually get more than 3 spice provinces in the americas, it's going to be pretty hard to stop them.

 

[Surimi]

Given the global distribution of spice, you're unlikely to be able to prevent it completely. However, all it does it to return the price of spices to a little over what it was at the start of the game, which is still pretty good. The spice trade should probably be thought of as more of a temporary boost than a permanent state of affairs.

 

[Bugnr01]

Thx. So i will take the hit and dont wast resources in a useless effort.

 

[alexti]

Is there a realistic chane for a indian or middle east nation to prevent the decline of spice tread from happening?
And if yes whats the best way to do so?

There are very few areas with spices and they are all within an easy reach for and Indian or ME nation. So you only need to conquer and colonize those area. It's basically southern part of India, Malaya, Indonesia, Moluccas and few islands in Indian ocean.

 

[Antonius66]

Encourage the terraforming of Dune and the elimination of the sand worms?

 

[Trin Tragula]

It's theoretically possible. Question is if it'd be worth the effort.

 

[CassCD]

It's theoretically possible. Question is if it'd be worth the effort.

The spice must flow, Trin. The spice must flow.

 

[DDRJake]

In any game where one focuses on trade and is a strongarm in South East Asia, I would strongly recommend prevening any European from owning 3 or more spice provinces. It's for the ducats.

 

[BrokenSky]

Out of interest is it possible to get decline of the spice trade without getting spice trade? In my current Brunei -> Malaya game, neither of the two European nations with cities in Indochina have merchants out there.

 

[Clownie]

Out of interest is it possible to get decline of the spice trade without getting spice trade? In my current Brunei -> Malaya game, neither of the two European nations with cities in Indochina have merchants out there.

I believe so, I seem to remember getting them in that order in my Kuba game.

 

[grommile]

Since the europeans will usually get more than 3 spice provinces in the americas, it's going to be pretty hard to stop them.

Unless 1.18 has changed something, spices have the following modifier clause in their weight calculation:

       modifier = {
           factor = 0
           NOT = {   region = malaya_region }
           NOT = {   region = moluccas_region }
           NOT = {   region = indonesia_region }
           NOT = { region = deccan_region }
           NOT = { region = bengal_region }
           NOT = { region = coromandel_region }
           NOT = { area = indian_ocean_islands_area }
           NOT = { province_id = 1244 } # Tahiti
       }

None of those regions, areas, or provinces are in the Americas, and there are no events which use change_trade_goods = spices as an effect. If you are seeing any spices in the Americas other than the single pre-generated spice province on the east coast of Mexico, it looks to me like you should be filing a bug report.

Anyway. As an Asian nation seeking to avoid the Decline of the Spice Trade, your major concerns are:

• Keep the Ottomans out of Arabia (they are European, and if they complete their missions for Egypt, Hejaz, and Yemen they will own four spice provinces) and Iran.
• Late-game, keep the Russians (and any (ex-)horde with a European capital) out of Iran.
  
• Keep the Europeans out of India (lots of spices there), Indonesia (lots of potential spices), and the inland parts of Kongo (three spice provinces).
• If Portugal or Castile conquers Morocco and starts to make any significant inroads into Mali or the eastern part of the Maghreb, kill them.

Good luck.

 

[InvictusLampada]

Out of interest is it possible to get decline of the spice trade without getting spice trade? In my current Brunei -> Malaya game, neither of the two European nations with cities in Indochina have merchants out there.

Yeah this is definitely possible, I had it this way round for a long time in my Malaya campaign. Needless to say I wasn't very happy.

Out of interest, since nations can no longer change their tech group to western, the Spice Trade event can only be fired by europeans now? Before a westernised african or middle-eastern nation would have fired it.

 

[Bugnr01]

@DDRJake Does European country owns x provinces with y goods (in the trade good price events) mean the european country have to hold it themself (does it have to be a state?) or is it enought if it is hold by a colony, a vassal or a protectorate? thx beforehand

Its now 1720 in my game and so far so good (for the spice trade).
This matter is a douple edged sword now! (seems like good designe if it is WAD, i hate it in the same way as i love the fact that it is this way)
Since its bound to european capitals i suprisingly found its not too difficould to avoid the decline of the spice trade so far in my current game if you are able to hold of the Ottomans and colonies fast enought through the indian ocean. But secureing the spice provinces had the unfortunate side effect of locking out the europeans from india and the spice islands, avoiding "Popularization of Silk" and "Demand for Calicoes". "Popularization of Sugar" also not fired jet (I am worried its also my falt by occupying the spice islands and making it hard for eropeans to get enought tea provinces or reaching the tea provinces in Vietnam and China).

no one can have everything it seems

 

[InvictusLampada]

@DDRJake Does European country owns x provinces with y goods (in the trade good price events) mean the european country have to hold it themself (does it have to be a state?) or is it enought if it is hold by a colony, a vassal or a protectorate? thx beforehand

I presume it requires the european country or its colonial nation to own the provinces. Whether it's a state or not shouldn't make any difference however.

 

[MaXimillion]

Does European country owns x provinces with y goods (in the trade good price events) mean the european country have to hold it themself (does it have to be a state?) or is it enought if it is hold by a colony, a vassal or a protectorate?

You can easily read that yourself from events/pricechanges.txt

# Decline of the Spice Trade
country_event = {
    id = prices.22
    title = prices.22.t
    desc = prices.22.d
    picture = TRADEGOODS_eventPicture

    fire_only_once = yes
    
    major = yes

    trigger = {
        is_year = 1600
        capital_scope = { continent = europe }
        spices = 3
        any_known_country = {
            capital_scope = { continent = europe }
            spices = 3
        }
        NOT = { has_global_flag = decline_of_spices_happened }
    }
    mean_time_to_happen = {
        months = 60
    }
    
    
    option = {
        name = prices.22.a
        change_price = {
            trade_goods = spices
            key = DECLINE_OF_SPICE_TRADE
            value = -0.4
            duration = -1
        }
    }
}

They have to be held directly. I was however under the impression that the 'any_known_country' trigger meant that two europeans would have to own three provinces for the decine to happen.