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Kuling

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Do you gain efficiency while building ships same as military factories do while building planes, tanks etc?
Wondering because i dont see an efficiency bar in any of the streams.
Sorry if this as been asked before
 
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Mirage2k

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Thus it will be totally viable to switch around 100% from time to time: Basic strategy will be to stockpile convoys at the beginning and only start producing combat vessels when you've unlocked something bad-ass.
 

Scutatus

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Thus it will be totally viable to switch around 100% from time to time: Basic strategy will be to stockpile convoys at the beginning and only start producing combat vessels when you've unlocked something bad-ass.

Construction must be a LOT faster in HOI4 then. In previous HOI games, building a capital ship could take a good two years. "waiting until you had something badass" wasn't the most viable of options for the larger ships, if you wanted a capital fleet early war. I know construction is faster now - but really fast enough that one can wait years before building large ships?
 
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Mirage2k

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Construction must be a LOT faster in HOI4 then. In previous HOI games, building a capital ship could take a good two years. "waiting until you had something badass" wasn't the most viable of options for the larger ships, if you wanted a capital fleet early war. I know construction is faster now - but really fast enough that one can wait years before building large ships?
As for example Japan, you should still be able to produce the same total number of ships as in HoI3, but in different order. Instead of maintaining constant production of a few convoys, cruisers and carriers from 1936 to maximize use of practicals, it is now probably a good idea to stockpile convoys until you reach 1938 level carrier and cruiser tech and then switch 100% to them with no need for convoys until 1940. Starting later on carrier/cruiser production is offset by being able to produce more of them in parallel.

I think this change has been made to offset the effects of another change they made: separating dockyards from military factories. Since IC cannot easily be moved from army to navy production, a Germany or Soviet Union having beaten the other will have a much harder time shifting all their IC into a navy to beat UK and USA. The removal of practical gains for ship production does something to offset this change: What IC they do invest in the navy starting in 1942 will not be at an efficiency disadvantage compared to the traditional naval powers.
 
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Mirage2k

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As for example Japan, you should still be able to produce the same total number of ships as in HoI3, but in different order. Instead of maintaining constant production of a few convoys, cruisers and carriers from 1936 to maximize use of practicals, it is now probably a good idea to stockpile convoys until you reach 1938 level carrier and cruiser tech and then switch 100% to them with no need for convoys until 1940. Starting later on carrier/cruiser production is offset by being able to produce more of them in parallel.
This of course assumes that all convoys and transports are created equal with none or insignificant upgrades.
 

Denkt

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Thus it will be totally viable to switch around 100% from time to time: Basic strategy will be to stockpile convoys at the beginning and only start producing combat vessels when you've unlocked something bad-ass.
Given that you can switch around dockyards between projects without any penalty, why not produce convoys then you need them. Sure later game ships are better then early ones but reaching the end game is not granted and you could be better of having a stronger navy in the early and mid game then a strong late game one.

As Japan you may want to use all your dockyards to build warships.
 
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Mirage2k

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Given that you can switch around dockyards between projects without any penalty, why not produce convoys then you need them. Sure later game ships are better then early ones but reaching the end game is not granted and you could be better of having a stronger navy in the early and mid game then a strong late game one.

As Japan you may want to use all your dockyards to build warships.
I'm not saying you should wait until 1940 to start warship production and sit on enough convoys to last to 1948. I'm saying that whenever you're in a "gap" where the newest warship you can produce is not really that modern or at least won't be modern by the time you go to war, that's probably a good time to stock up on some convoys so you don't need to use your dockyards for that in 9 months when a new and much stronger ship class is unlocked.

Convoys in stockpile is a redundancy, I agree with that: Whenever you have exactly as many convoys as you need and no extras, you have spent the maximum available amount of IC into power for that moment in time. Your suggestion to produce convoys only when needed would thus be the most efficient if all ships were of equal quality and if you need your navy to be at maximum possible strength at all times.

However, the navy needs only be at maximum strength when you need it to, which is usually periodic peaks of time starting in 1940 or so. As long as you don't have redundant convoys during these peaks you will have the same amount of IC spent on combat power for these periods as if you stocpiled earlier, and any previous stockpiling is not a hindrance. As a player, you can often know when these peaks of demand for naval power will be. As Britain for example, you will experience such a peak of demand for warships when first entering war with the Axis (particularly Italy) early in the war, and another when the Japanese join the party. Each of these peaks can last for a week or a year, but they are temporary: One side will gain the upper hand and can rest parts of his fleet, the other side will be forced to port for a period. You as the player can plan for when these peaks will come and a competent player will aim to have the maximum strength available at those times. One aspect of maximizing strength for those is to not have convoys stockpiled at the time, as these represent IC that could have been spent on warships.

Another and equally important aspect is to use the available IC for the highest quality ships possible. This is why stockpiling convoys can actually be efficient: Producing 100% convoys in the first year and building 100% warships in the last 3 yields the same number of warships and convoys after 4 years as producing 25% convoys and 75% warships over 4 years, but the one who does the early stockpiling will have better warships and older convoys at the end of those 4 years.

If you as Japan "use all your dockyards to build warships" as you suggest, then I wish you good luck in using those warships for anything useful. What's the point of conquering an overseas empire if you don't have convoys to return the resources and supply your troops abroad?
 
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Denkt

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I'm not saying you should wait until 1940 to start warship production and sit on enough convoys to last to 1948. I'm saying that whenever you're in a "gap" where the newest warship you can produce is not really that modern or at least won't be modern by the time you go to war, that's probably a good time to stock up on some convoys so you don't need to use your dockyards for that in 9 months when a new and much stronger ship class is unlocked.
Even then it may be better to have a obsolete ship then extra convoys who may not be needed.

Another and equally important aspect is to use the available IC for the highest quality ships possible. This is why stockpiling convoys can actually be efficient: Producing 100% convoys in the first year and building 100% warships in the last 3 yields the same number of warships and convoys after 4 years as producing 25% convoys and 75% warships over 4 years, but the one who does the early stockpiling will have better warships and older convoys at the end of those 4 years.
Yes this true but for this to apply it need:
  1. I have a need of convoys
  2. I can control then I will be at war
Otherwise I could just build warship after warship. Many nations seem to start with a significant surplus of convoys.
 

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Even then it may be better to have a obsolete ship then extra convoys who may not be needed.


Yes this true but for this to apply it need:
  1. I have a need of convoys
  2. I can control then I will be at war
Otherwise I could just build warship after warship. Many nations seem to start with a significant surplus of convoys.
How many convoys you start with and how many you extra you need to cover trade, imperial expansion and losses will depend on choices by Paradox and on the specific game you play. The topic here is obviously about general ship production, not your particular game where you play as Soviets and don't need any convoys.
 

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Watching the www's, it seems that naval warfare will be built around invasions. They seem to be able to commence very quickly.{ 60 para divisions dropped in Scotland and then returned to France for a drop in London within a week] All you need is air superiority and off you go. I think ships will need to be on constant anti invasion alert and vulnerable to air power, 200 cas 200 naval bombers seems to be totally doable. flatten their fleet and away you go .My view is that ships are not going to last very long in coastal waters and therefore you will need every ship you can .As Robert Wyatt soon we will be shipbuilding
 

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Construction must be a LOT faster in HOI4 then. In previous HOI games, building a capital ship could take a good two years. "waiting until you had something badass" wasn't the most viable of options for the larger ships, if you wanted a capital fleet early war. I know construction is faster now - but really fast enough that one can wait years before building large ships?

Ship lines produce serially instead of in parallel now, so, yeah... You can fit a whole lotta dockyards on one ship, and it allows the first ones to come out absurdly early. There've been a few threads on how awful this is for presumably unintended consequences.