Question about CB's in HttT

[BurnEmDown]

First I'm sorry to open another question thread about HttT when there's so many, I'd suggest opening an official Q&A thread for HttT.
Now for my question: in HttT when you get CB's against countries, they do not just mean that you get less BB and stability hits by declaring war, but that when you declare war you need to choose which CB you want to use to soften the problems you get from declaring war (BB and stability hits).
Now, when my allies are attacked, 2 pop-up windows come up, one tells me I have an "alliance CB" against a certain country, and the other asks me if I want to help my ally in the war, now the problem is that if I accept the call to arms, I get stability hits from "having no CB" even though I do! And declining is of course out of question since I want to be able to help my allies. The only solution I find is that instead of accepting the call to arms, I look for the target country and declare war manually using the alliance CB, but then, it's as if I'm starting a whole new war against them, I'm not in cooperation with my ally and the target country's allies can declare war on me!
So my question is, is there any way to accept the call to arms together with my CB, so that I won't suffer such a stability hit? (and enjoy all the benefits of the CB like half price and less infamy).

 

[Nyrael]

You will get the stability hit anyway because CB's just remove "No CB Stab hit" which calling to arms also removes (the other stab hits are gained from RM's, good relations, truce breaking, etc.). I am not sure if peace negotiations are the same tough.

 

[Darkrenown]

When you get called to arms and see "no CB" it's because you ally had declared war without a CB and you have to choose to support them or not. There's no way to use your own CBs unless you declare a seperate war.

 

[BurnEmDown]

So there's no way to help your allies without either starting a new war or getting a stability hit? I'm pretty sure that before HttT, accepting the call to arms didn't give a stability hit.

 

[Junuxx]

The Alliance CB confuses me too.

 

[Junuxx]

I'm pretty sure that before HttT, accepting the call to arms didn't give a stability hit.

It did, depending on the circumstances. If your ally attacks a third party, and you have good relations, military access or a royal marriage with them, honoring the call to arms gave a stab hit for sure.

If the third party attacks your ally, you never get a stab hit.

This hasn't changed.

 

[Lazuline]

I'm confused about the Claim to the Throne CB as well. I have no idea when its possible to force a PU or when it is not. In an ENG game, I claimed HOL's throne only to find out I can sue for Personal Union.

 

[Junuxx]

I'm confused about the Claim to the Throne CB as well. I have no idea when its possible to force a PU or when it is not. In an ENG game, I claimed HOL's throne only to find out I can sue for Personal Union.

If they aren't the alliance leader you can't claim their throne, I believe.

 

[Darkrenown]

So there's no way to help your allies without either starting a new war or getting a stability hit? I'm pretty sure that before HttT, accepting the call to arms didn't give a stability hit.

If your ally has a valid CB there's no stab hit, only if they declare war using the "no CB" CB. I'm pretty sure there were stab hits for CTAs in IN too.

 

[Darkrenown]

The Alliance CB confuses me too.

It's for if your ally gets called by one of their other allies and you feel like helping out. Or if you ally with someone already in a war and want to join in etc.

 

[BurnEmDown]

It did, depending on the circumstances. If your ally attacks a third party, and you have good relations, military access or a royal marriage with them, honoring the call to arms gave a stab hit for sure.

If the third party attacks your ally, you never get a stab hit.

This hasn't changed.

What I meant was that you didn't get a stability hit for declaring without CB.
So what you're saying is that if my ally is attacked and I want to defend him I shouldn't be getting a stability hit for no CB? And that if he attacks someone I will get a stability hit for no CB? I guess I didn't notice my ally was on the offensive.

 

[Junuxx]

It's for if your ally gets called by one of their other allies and you feel like helping out. Or if you ally with someone already in a war and want to join in etc.

Well that makes sense. But perhaps you shouldn't get an alliance CB if you also get a Call to Arms.

What I meant was that you didn't get a stability hit for declaring without CB.
So what you're saying is that if my ally is attacked and I want to defend him I shouldn't be getting a stability hit for no CB? And that if he attacks someone I will get a stability hit for no CB? I guess I didn't notice my ally was on the offensive.

That's what I'm saying indeed. But you did get stab hits for no CB in IN. Not for heathens though, but that has been replaced by the Holy War CB.

 

[Darkrenown]

And that if he attacks someone I will get a stability hit for no CB? I guess I didn't notice my ally was on the offensive.

Only if your ally doesn't have a CB though. If they do you are fine.

Well that makes sense. But perhaps you shouldn't get an alliance CB if you also get a Call to Arms.

You shouldn't really, I believe it's just because of the way the engine works. Your ally is at war without you for a moment, so you're granted the alliance CB at the end of the month. If you accept the call you'll then lose it the following month because you're at war with the same nation as your ally. If you dishonour the call the same thing happens, except you lose it for not being allied.

 

[King Nothing]

You shouldn't really, I believe it's just because of the way the engine works. Your ally is at war without you for a moment, so you're granted the alliance CB at the end of the month. If you accept the call you'll then lose it the following month because you're at war with the same nation as your ally. If you dishonour the call the same thing happens, except you lose it for not being allied.

Could that be used as an exploit? What would happen if you used the alliance CB before answering the call to arms?

 

[tului]

So for the player its a win-win to use their Alliance CB to DoW whoever their Ally is fighting. You don't get a stab hit AND you don't risk not being alliance leader and not getting what YOU want in the peace AND you still don't take a hit for not honoring the alliance.

Is my understanding of this right? If so I'll just use my own CB to help my allies out.

 

[Darkrenown]

Well if you fail to honour the call you'll take a prestige hit and lose your ally.

Besides, the Ally CB isn't much good for landgrabbing, you'll take the full BB hit for taking provinces etc.

 

[BurnEmDown]

Yes that's what I do most of the time, and after you declare war on your ally's enemy click on accept and you won't get prestige or stability hit since you're already in a war with the target, however most of the times when this happens to me I end up in a war alone since my ally quickly surrenders, which is why I wouldn't care being a minor in the war but not getting stuck alone against an enemy I thought I could only take on with my ally.

 

[King Nothing]

Well if you fail to honour the call you'll take a prestige hit and lose your ally.

Besides, the Ally CB isn't much good for landgrabbing, you'll take the full BB hit for taking provinces etc.

But if I do honour it while I'm already in a war against the would be enemy? As BurnEmDown says it seems to be an exploit that can be used. I keep my ally since I go to war but I don't get any stab hits because I have the CB and I'm already in the war before answering the call.

BurnEm: Are you sure you just don't get a separate war against them? So your ally is still in the war but it's listed as another one?

 

[Darkrenown]

Oh. Yeah, if you do what burnemdown says you could avoid the stab hit. Although if you don't like that exploit the solution is to not do it.

 

[BurnEmDown]

Yes it is a separate war, and it is useful sometimes, but sometimes I'd rather help my ally.
Well I guess it's their own damn fault for declaring without a CB .