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Your total industrial output in the game is measure by the lower of any of the following :
ICs, Oil, Coal, Steel, Rubber.
IC is the maximum theoretical output.
If you have 750 ICS and produce 3600 coal, 2600 steel, and 400 rubber, your production is 400.
Later technologies include conversion factories, so that you can immediately process coal or oil to makeup for a shortfall in either oil or rubber (which is ususally what is lacking).
If you don't expect to be able to makeup for a shortfall in resources either by the World Market, conquest of resource areas that you are short of, or later conversion industries, then expanding the IC base makes absolutely no sense at all.
This conversion table would be a good representation of ROI, if HOI had the normal number of days and months in a year. HOI has twelve 30 day months, giving a total of 360 day years. Therefore, your table is not correct and underestimates the ROI by 5 days per year, up to 1 month of error for each 6 year ROI in your table.
Ic Development
I think the key to Industrial develeopment is along the lines of the "perfect investment" concept.
This May Get Confussing, so i'll take it slow.
The key is determine if everything was perfect how much could an industry grow in a year? This is the magic number lets say x% growth.
The next concept that perfect investment is done in stages.
Units of inestment - Result (% of the max x% growth
1 - 50%
2 - 75%
3 - 87.5%
4 - 93.75%
5 - 96.875%
6 - 98.9325%
As you can see each lvl of investment increases the remaing amount to invest by 50% so its impossible to get 100% investment the "perfect investment talked about. And it get less and less cost effective the more you invest.
The key is determine how much it cost to invest at each stage and what is the perfect investmet.
Costs can be in rubber, IC, Steel, Oil, Coal event supplies for each unit of investment
so a cost of 1 rubber, 2 IC, 2 Steel. 1 Oil and 2 coal would look like this for each step of investment
1 1R, 1O, 2S, 2IC, 2C - 50%
2 2R, 2O, 4S, 4IC, 4C - 75%
3 3R, 3O, 6S, 6IC, 6C - 87.5
4 4R, 4O, 8S, 8IC, 8C - 93.75%
5 5R, 5O, 10S, 10IC, 10C - 96.875%
6 6R, 6O, 12S, 12IC, 12C - 98.0325%
7 - ect
As you can see the cost can be changed for balance AND so can the "perfect investment" rate. This makes investment more realistic in that its Beter to invest in large urban centers and it can be applied to resorses as well. A third variable is the time it take to re the increase from "perfect investment".
I know that it maybe confussing but its siple if you understand that you can never reach perfect investment because with each step you only increase by 50% of the amount that is lest . Much like is a rock falls a meter it first falls half way then half way of whats left and then half way again and so on and so on each time traveling 1/2 the distance to the ground. This is similar to "perfect investment" what limits it is the cost itcost the same amount for each step of investment and after the 2 or 3rd step its very expensive for little gain.
So to recape the variables are the cost to invest, the time it takes to invest and what is the amount of increase with perfect investment.
I hope that was clear.
I think the key to Industrial develeopment is along the lines of the "perfect investment" concept.
This May Get Confussing, so i'll take it slow.
The key is determine if everything was perfect how much could an industry grow in a year? This is the magic number lets say x% growth.
The next concept that perfect investment is done in stages.
Units of inestment - Result (% of the max x% growth
1 - 50%
2 - 75%
3 - 87.5%
4 - 93.75%
5 - 96.875%
6 - 98.9325%
As you can see each lvl of investment increases the remaing amount to invest by 50% so its impossible to get 100% investment the "perfect investment talked about. And it get less and less cost effective the more you invest.
The key is determine how much it cost to invest at each stage and what is the perfect investmet.
Costs can be in rubber, IC, Steel, Oil, Coal event supplies for each unit of investment
so a cost of 1 rubber, 2 IC, 2 Steel. 1 Oil and 2 coal would look like this for each step of investment
1 1R, 1O, 2S, 2IC, 2C - 50%
2 2R, 2O, 4S, 4IC, 4C - 75%
3 3R, 3O, 6S, 6IC, 6C - 87.5
4 4R, 4O, 8S, 8IC, 8C - 93.75%
5 5R, 5O, 10S, 10IC, 10C - 96.875%
6 6R, 6O, 12S, 12IC, 12C - 98.0325%
7 - ect
As you can see the cost can be changed for balance AND so can the "perfect investment" rate. This makes investment more realistic in that its Beter to invest in large urban centers and it can be applied to resorses as well. A third variable is the time it take to re the increase from "perfect investment".
I know that it maybe confussing but its siple if you understand that you can never reach perfect investment because with each step you only increase by 50% of the amount that is lest . Much like is a rock falls a meter it first falls half way then half way of whats left and then half way again and so on and so on each time traveling 1/2 the distance to the ground. This is similar to "perfect investment" what limits it is the cost itcost the same amount for each step of investment and after the 2 or 3rd step its very expensive for little gain.
So to recape the variables are the cost to invest, the time it takes to invest and what is the amount of increase with perfect investment.
I hope that was clear.
Couple of questions
I came here because I too started a game as the US and was looking to improve Baker and Johnson. But I guess I cant? That seems kind of strange.
On a related note (to this thread anyway), what exactly does the Improve Infrastructure option do? In the tutorial it says it allows you to move troops through a province faster, but in the manual it says that this option increases resource output? Which is it? Both? And, to what extent?
The tutorial also indicates that there is a production cost to provincial improvements and that you can see this cost. I cant. I just see its completion date and on my production screen the need amount for my production section doesnt increase when I build AAs, coastal forts, upgrade infrastructure, etc.
Thanks
olaf
I came here because I too started a game as the US and was looking to improve Baker and Johnson. But I guess I cant? That seems kind of strange.
On a related note (to this thread anyway), what exactly does the Improve Infrastructure option do? In the tutorial it says it allows you to move troops through a province faster, but in the manual it says that this option increases resource output? Which is it? Both? And, to what extent?
The tutorial also indicates that there is a production cost to provincial improvements and that you can see this cost. I cant. I just see its completion date and on my production screen the need amount for my production section doesnt increase when I build AAs, coastal forts, upgrade infrastructure, etc.
Thanks
olaf
Re: Couple of questions
Why? They're tiny dots of land in the middle of the ocean, less than a mile wide. How much industry do you think you could fit on there? If anything, more Pacific islands should be rated '0'.
Why? They're tiny dots of land in the middle of the ocean, less than a mile wide. How much industry do you think you could fit on there? If anything, more Pacific islands should be rated '0'.
Re: Re: Couple of questions
But you cannot build coastal or AA defenses either...and those could be useful on those islands. I think thats more what he is referring to not building factories.
But you cannot build coastal or AA defenses either...and those could be useful on those islands. I think thats more what he is referring to not building factories.
Pretty much every Pacific island was given 1 IC to be able to construct forts and such even thoguh they should not have any industry.
In most cases, they probably shouldn't be able to build much in the way of forts, either, though...there just wasn't much in the way of real estate on places like Midway to build large-scale fortifications. (Gary Grigsby's Pacific War represented this pretty well by giving the atolls a terrain type of '1', which made them easy to capture and a pain to defend.)
Originally posted by Cossack
So what is being said here, you shouldn't bother to upgrade any Industry?
No, just be selective and do your math homework.
Of course, some of you out there are like me and slept through math and can't figure out the complicated formula.
So I simply take my provinces that are less than 5 and build them up. When they hit 5 I stop. It is a simple process for my simple brain to understand.
Also, I feel that coastal fortresses and land fortresses should be allowed in any province. There could possibly be an overall IC loss suffered by the nation to account for the resources AND transportation of the resources to the affected province. I mean, how much heavy industry did Okinawa or Iwo Jima have anyway? Ask anyone who was there tho and they will tell you about how fortified they were.
Just my $.02.
Yes, but since you can trade on the world market for any resource, what really counts is the total amount of resources that you have. For example, if you are short in rubber but have a lot of steel, you can get as much rubber as you need by exchanging steel for it.
So unless I missed something, it DOES make sense to build up your industries in provinces that have low ICs.
For example, when I played Canada, I had not rubber at all, but more steel than I could count , and enough oil and coal. By exchanging steel for rubber I got more than I needed and even built up a large reserve. In the meantime, by building up the low-IC provinces, I managed to double my ICs while carrying out research.
Of course this still was not enough to make me compete with the biggies. As someone else pointed out, the only way to do this for a minor is to take territory from other minors, and Canada is not in a good position to do this. But Brazil and Argentina are, and can send their ICs through the roof by means of conquest of weak neighbors and eventually the US itself.
Henri
Re: Couple of questions
I never saw answer to Olaf's questions on Infrastructure..Does anyone have one?
I never saw answer to Olaf's questions on Infrastructure..Does anyone have one?