Question About Accepted Cultures

[unmerged(86566)]

Hey guys,

Does accepting a culture 20% of base tax rule use the province's "Tax Base" or what is actually collected after the modifiers?
Also, do you guys have any god strategies as per accepting cultures? In my current byzantium game i am having a hard time getting anything besides turkish to be accepted.

 

[dharper]

It's the base tax.

I'm not sure there's really any strategy to it - once you get over a certain size, it's going to become impossible to gain accepted culture for any but the most widespread cultures. My advice to you would be to convert culture for smaller cultures, like Albanian or Bulgarian, and try to collect the larger ones, like Turkish.

 

[unmerged(86566)]

It's the base tax.

I'm not sure there's really any strategy to it - once you get over a certain size, it's going to become impossible to gain accepted culture for any but the most widespread cultures. My advice to you would be to convert culture for smaller cultures, like Albanian or Bulgarian, and try to collect the larger ones, like Turkish.

Ah, so then building Temples or Constables (give +20% tax) will do nothing to help that then?

 

[RogerWilco]

It's the base tax.

I'm not sure there's really any strategy to it - once you get over a certain size, it's going to become impossible to gain accepted culture for any but the most widespread cultures. My advice to you would be to convert culture for smaller cultures, like Albanian or Bulgarian, and try to collect the larger ones, like Turkish.

I still think that it's a weird mechanic that if you get big, you no longer have any accepted cultures, you lose them all, as they all drop to be below 10% (IIRC) of your tax base. I think it's a silly mechanic.

 

[knoddy]

can a culture become no longer accepted if you grow too big?

Im fairly certain I had this happen in my Najd game. Indian culture was accepted even when I only had like 3 provinces because their base tax was so high. then as I grew Im sure I saw a mesage saying it was no longer accepted.

TBH i dont even bother with culture conversions anymore, I dont see how its worth the diplo points. In my byzzie campaign, I had different culture everywhere and just ignored it. In my current Najd game, its getting exactly the same, Im too busy dumping my diplo points into ideas, i can understand the cheap ones, but the cheap ones are probably where you see the least benefit.

What are the disadvantages its like -33% tax income?

 

[unmerged(86566)]

So then there is no point in increasing taxes through contables and temples with regards to accepted cultures, correct? Only to gain money in the balance sheet?

 

[knoddy]

So then there is no point in increasing taxes through contables and temples with regards to accepted cultures, correct? Only to gain money in the balance sheet?

im not quite sure what you mean, If you build temples and constables, they will still increase your tax income. I cant remember exactly what the modifier is, I believe its -33% tax for not accepted cultures, so if you build a constable and a temple you gain 1 tax, and 20%. So its still worthwile, just maybe build them where you have accepted culture first?

 

[wetblowdryer]

It is FREAKING hilarious how I can conquer one one base tax province and suddenly a culture that I have accepted for 300 years suddenly becomes unaccepted.

Culture in Rome 2 is more detailed and needs a major overhaul by Paradox.

 

[unmerged(86566)]

im not quite sure what you mean, If you build temples and constables, they will still increase your tax income. I cant remember exactly what the modifier is, I believe its -33% tax for not accepted cultures, so if you build a constable and a temple you gain 1 tax, and 20%. So its still worthwile, just maybe build them where you have accepted culture first?

I'm just asking if the benefits of those buildings apply to increasing that province's culture towards your tax base, and hence building them will help get that culture approved.

 

[knoddy]

I'm just asking if the benefits of those buildings apply to increasing that province's culture towards your tax base, and hence building them will help get that culture approved.

ah, then no, they dont, but building them will increase your tax income slightly.

 

[dharper]

can a culture become no longer accepted if you grow too big?

Yes! There are two lines in defines.lua that control accepted cultures:

CULTURE_LOSS_THRESHOLD = 0.10, -- _CDEF_CULTURE_LOSS_THRESHOLD = 10,
CULTURE_GAIN_THRESHOLD = 0.20, -- _CDEF_CULTURE_GAIN_THRESHOLD = 10,

The first one means that you lose an accepted culture if it no longer makes up at least 10% of your 'base tax from cores', and the second means that you gain an accepted culture if it ever makes up at least 20% of your 'base tax from cores'.

So in theory, it's possible to have 10 accepted cultures simultaneously, but only if each was exactly 10% of your base tax. Practically speaking, having five at the same time would be quite hard!

Note that you can alter these numbers. If you changed the CULTURE_LOSS_THRESHOLD to 0, you will only lose an accepted culture if you lose all provinces of that culture.

 

[dvallance]

I still think that it's a weird mechanic that if you get big, you no longer have any accepted cultures, you lose them all, as they all drop to be below 10% (IIRC) of your tax base. I think it's a silly mechanic.

Not necessarily I think it works this way to simulate large empires problems with minorities, if they tied it in with nationalism in the late game it would be great, I think culture conversion should involve colonists and only be possible in low base tax provinces as well as diplomatic power

 

[knoddy]

so does anyone else jsut not bother when creating a large empire? is the -33% tax the only negative? I cant remember off the top of my head.

while the tax is annoying I have massive trade income and am about +10 in the green with all lv 2 advisors so getting an extra 33% tax income isnt worth the cost in diplo points especially when I can spend those points to get more trade income!

 

[dvallance]

so does anyone else jsut not bother when creating a large empire? is the -33% tax the only negative? I cant remember off the top of my head.

while the tax is annoying I have massive trade income and am about +10 in the green with all lv 2 advisors so getting an extra 33% tax income isnt worth the cost in diplo points especially when I can spend those points to get more trade income!

I think most people avoid culture conversion as it seems a waste of diplo points unless your short of manpower/cash, I think non-accepted cultures should only cause problems around 1780~ onwards as this was when rising nationalism became an issue in europe.

 

[sskrypteia]

i convert the provinces with a large base tax. like the 10s and above. I feel it benefits slightly that way. oh and only if i have excess diplo.

 

[Dr Freud]

i convert the provinces with a large base tax. like the 10s and above. I feel it benefits slightly that way. oh and only if i have excess diplo.

This doesn't seem right to me. The DIP cost scales with base tax so I don't see how this would work. In fact, adding a temple to a base tax 1 province doubles it's contribution but only adds 10% to a base tax 10 province so I suspect it's better to convert many low base tax provinces than a single high BT one. If you're going to convert at all, that is.

The other consideration is manpower. Province BT and province manpower tend to be correlated, but not exactly. Converting provinces with a high manpower:base tax ratio gives you more manpower bang for your buck.

 

[brifbates]

This doesn't seem right to me. The DIP cost scales with base tax so I don't see how this would work. In fact, adding a temple to a base tax 1 province doubles it's contribution but only adds 10% to a base tax 10 province so I suspect it's better to convert many low base tax provinces than a single high BT one. If you're going to convert at all, that is.

The other consideration is manpower. Province BT and province manpower tend to be correlated, but not exactly. Converting provinces with a high manpower:base tax ratio gives you more manpower bang for your buck.

The flip side is that right culture+religion provinces are immune to certain rebellion events and the size of the generated rebellions scales with base tax. If you've ever had Jackals/Vultures hit a province like Paris or Kiev you can understand why he'd want to convert the high value provinces.