Qara Qoyunlu ideas?

[makaramus]

I wanted to form persia Picked defensive ideas only to get rekt by ottomans (they blobbed way too fast even faster than pre nerf XD) ... when we fought he is offender I killed double of my loses but still lost miserably ... is defensive actually bad choose? what should I picked instead? :/

 

[magni_]

Defensive was a fine pick
the mistake was to wait thil the ottos eat you

the better stratagy is to ally mamluks
set some land of the ottos that mamluks have no intrest in as vital intrest
it wil not take long thill u get a call to arms by mamluks where they promise you land
Honor that call to arms because now u actualy have a war that u can win to cripple ottos

afther that first war 15 jears later u can call in mamluks on favors to get a lot of land for your self

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

Mamluks normally rival QQ in the current patch. Together with the removed horde government QQ isn't in a good spot right now. You have no income, can't raze and one unlucky moment and you're full with equally rebels.

It's easier to take Ajam, convert to Shia per decision and survive the first years (eating minors and Timurids).

 

[Sfan]

You're lying. The Ottomans can't kill you, they should be dead to the OP Mamluks already and Byzantium have taken their cores because Paradox does not like Turkey. I read it on the forum so it's true.


Anyway, defensive was an excellent choice to fight them early on. The real difficulty is with the diplomatic situation which got a lot more complex now. If you can't secure a strong alliance like Mamluks, it's probably safer to expand to the south/east, as the area is now significantly interesting and there also is a lot of Shia land. That's another possibility, it's easier to outgrow them now that they don't have cores to expand AE free, and now that the Mamluks can resist them more easily.

 

[makaramus]

You're lying. The Ottomans can't kill you, they should be dead to the OP Mamluks already and Byzantium have taken their cores because Paradox does not like Turkey. I read it on the forum so it's true.

tell that to 80 k army he flushed into my face
thanks for smile it was nice comment I think I gonna try pick aristocratic this time maybe with military tech cost bonus I can have better chance
holy shit now I checked they also took admin +influance + quantitiy... HARDCORE AI

 

[gamingeu]

Hey man, did you have any success ? im in the same struggle.
I dont know which ideas too take first, quantity or better defensive ?

I tried several runs , tried different moves.

First of all, mamluks are a the key to beat ottomans early.
But they arent a good ally, If they manage to unmantle the Ottomans, they will attack you next.
However if you ally them too late , ottoman will get too strong. I managed this in one run, but ottomans kept attacking me instead of Mamluks. Even then the mamluks didnt win any fight against a infirior ottoman army. So if you ally mamlucks make sure you can beat the ottomans.
So a way too involve the mamluks in ottoman wars without allying them is to attack aq qoyunlu early on, in a way that dulkadir is isolated and karaman allied to mamluks. The moment ottomans gets in fights in the balkan , mamluks will attack them. In this run , i had a strong timurid ally, but they didnt helped me against strong mamluks.

So i found out two opening moves:
1. Attack ajam, to outgrow the ottomans , like already suggested, cause you have a lot of shia and persian culture lands there.
2. Gain aq qoyunlu lands to, expans into anatolia early .

Differents strats i use, are the forts to beat big armys, especially the hisn kayfa and ilam one.
And them mothball the forts asap after wars.
COnvert provinces to shia by buying a inquisitor advisor for the missionary strength and use the religious decisionwith your first ruler. alsp accept as the mashriqi as culture, this way you will avoid a lot of rebels early. YOu will need the manpower for wars.
You can also release armenia as vassal , if you dont want to expand to the north, and give them all the armenia and georgian lands.

Dont expand into arabia too early. Just release a shia vassal and let it convert it first, these land arent worth much and you gain too much enemies like ethiopia and Sind. You dont need more enemies.
I would stop at basra.

 

[Dominion]

QQ is a Horde.

You kill them in flat terrain.

Did the run with AQ before they got additional provinces and still won the first war before expanding into any other direction.

If 3 provinces are enough then QQ's provinces should more than suffice.

And I wouldn't go defensive first as Horde.

 

[makaramus]

QQ is a Horde.

You kill them in flat terrain.

Did the run with AQ before they got additional provinces and still won the first war before expanding into any other direction.

If 3 provinces are enough then QQ's provinces should more than suffice.

And I wouldn't go defensive first as Horde.

1)I opened this thread months ago
2)They are no longer horde
3)I complated that campaign long ago

 

[gigau]

1)I opened this thread months ago

It is @gamingeu who bumped the thread to ask for news about your run?

 

[makaramus]

It is @gamingeu who bumped the thread to ask for news about your run?

still his response absurbly wrong

and its obvius he was responding me and not him

 

[makaramus]

Hey man, did you have any success ? im in the same struggle.
I dont know which ideas too take first, quantity or better defensive ?

I tried several runs , tried different moves.

First of all, mamluks are a the key to beat ottomans early.
But they arent a good ally, If they manage to unmantle the Ottomans, they will attack you next.
However if you ally them too late , ottoman will get too strong. I managed this in one run, but ottomans kept attacking me instead of Mamluks. Even then the mamluks didnt win any fight against a infirior ottoman army. So if you ally mamlucks make sure you can beat the ottomans.
So a way too involve the mamluks in ottoman wars without allying them is to attack aq qoyunlu early on, in a way that dulkadir is isolated and karaman allied to mamluks. The moment ottomans gets in fights in the balkan , mamluks will attack them. In this run , i had a strong timurid ally, but they didnt helped me against strong mamluks.

So i found out two opening moves:
1. Attack ajam, to outgrow the ottomans , like already suggested, cause you have a lot of shia and persian culture lands there.
2. Gain aq qoyunlu lands to, expans into anatolia early .

Differents strats i use, are the forts to beat big armys, especially the hisn kayfa and ilam one.
And them mothball the forts asap after wars.
COnvert provinces to shia by buying a inquisitor advisor for the missionary strength and use the religious decisionwith your first ruler. alsp accept as the mashriqi as culture, this way you will avoid a lot of rebels early. YOu will need the manpower for wars.
You can also release armenia as vassal , if you dont want to expand to the north, and give them all the armenia and georgian lands.

Dont expand into arabia too early. Just release a shia vassal and let it convert it first, these land arent worth much and you gain too much enemies like ethiopia and Sind. You dont need more enemies.
I would stop at basra.

my strategy was:
1)Conquer arbadil
2)Conquer iraq's remaining lands
3)build some trade ships there to aid your trade power
4)conquer ajam
5)Conquer aq qoyunlu
6)reform goverment and form persia(if you want to chase for achivement my advice is keep qara qoyunlu ideas their ideas are much better for conquest and this is persia depands on huge conquest)
7)Unite your culture with your new op goverment form

idea chooses are:
1)Aristocratic or defensive.(depands on your situation
2)admin(if want achivement)/economic(to have good cavalary based army early and have good advisors early. also good to devolp your lands for getting instutation)
3)Trade ideas/Diplomatic ideas
4)Offansive ideas for finishing god like generals

reminder: in my game Ididnt chase achivements and instead wanted to play usual persia game. if you want to have better guide I advice you to follow adrian

also religius idea is good too instead of economic or admin but not a must have since persia got very good conversion power. still its good to have

 

[ShahanShah]

Ally ottomans, set all of syria as vital interest, beat the shit out of the mamluks and basically cut off the ottomans from ever reaching egypt. Just be careful of Bitlis, since once the ottomans border them you'll get that monstrous "Desires subjects provinces" malus. Just keep trust really high and favour so they can fight your wars for you without expending your own manpower and money.

As for Ideas, get admin, defensive and possibly religious, stacks well with the eventual reformation of government and into persia, defensive for the terrain bonuses and huge morale buff with persia ideas+shia morale. After you're incredibly powerful and ottoman expansion has been checked to where he can't abuse levant cultrual union it shouldn't be a challenge to beat him into a pulp.

Edit: I should also mention that there is a possibility of your potential Persia targets (Ajam/Khorsan/Fars) allying the Ottos, which will involve a lot of manuvering to get around, but don't let it discourage you if it happens.

 

[gamingeu]

ty all for the help, will try it out.