Q: does it make any sense (korea)

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As for the Korean "comfort women":

I'm sure that'll be one of the uncomfortable elements of WWII that are left out of the game. Really, what would be gained by including it?

 

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Originally posted by BarristerBoy
Really, what would be gained by including it?

Nothing. And jokes on the subject are in pretty poor taste (see upthread).

 

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Yes yes yes, I apologize again if I insulted anyone, but there wa no joke intended. Hasn't anyone else ever smirked at a grim subject just to ease the tension? Anyway... what about the Korean anarchist movement? Wasn't that growing pretty large under Japanese occupation?

 

[Aetius]

Originally posted by DamnedChimp
Yes yes yes, I apologize again if I insulted anyone, but there wa no joke intended. Hasn't anyone else ever smirked at a grim subject just to ease the tension? Anyway... what about the Korean anarchist movement? Wasn't that growing pretty large under Japanese occupation?

The Japanese had a firm grip of the Korea. There was a resistance but I don't think it was very effective, the Japanese Secret Police was very effective according to what I have read. The Japanese extremely disliked but there was no way to help the opposition groups in Korea. The reason was that one of the reasons for the Japanese occupation/annexation of Manchuria was specifically to prevent arms and aid flowing to Korean guerillas.

 

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Hmm, coincidentally I just flipped through a book on the Japanese secret police the other day. Since there are going to be spies and the like in HOI, would I be correct in assuming that the Germans and Japanese (maybe Soviets too) would get a bonus to spying?

 

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Originally posted by DamnedChimp
Hmm, coincidentally I just flipped through a book on the Japanese secret police the other day. Since there are going to be spies and the like in HOI, would I be correct in assuming that the Germans and Japanese (maybe Soviets too) would get a bonus to spying?

Bonus??

If anything they should get a penalty. The Allies cracked many (most the important ones) Axis codes. They kept D-Day, the A-Bomb secret. Didn't loose/reveal important tech like radar and sonar. As far as espinoge (Sp?) in WWII the UK/USA (not sure about USSR) totally dominated the Axis.

The German Brandenberg (is that the right name?) unit did some interesting dis-information/disruption stuff but not spying.

 

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Originally posted by robothelpermnky


Bonus??

If anything they should get a penalty.

The German espionage program in the UK in WWII was a fiasco from start to finish. MI5 located *every single* German agent within a short period of time, many of whom subsequently became double agents spreading disinformation back to Berlin.

 

[Ape]

Originally posted by robothelpermnky

The German Brandenberg (is that the right name?) unit did some interesting dis-information/disruption stuff but not spying.

Brandenburg.

 

[Aetius]

Originally posted by Keplerus


The German espionage program in the UK in WWII was a fiasco from start to finish. MI5 located *every single* German agent within a short period of time, many of whom subsequently became double agents spreading disinformation back to Berlin.

On the other hand Cicero did do a good job in find out the date of and location of the D-Day landing.

 

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Originally posted by Aetius
On the other hand Cicero did do a good job in find out the date of and location of the D-Day landing.

There is some pretty good evidence that the Cicero affair was actually a British deception operation. See Anthony Cave Brown's book "Bodyguard of Lies".

 

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is that a reference to the body the Brits planted just off Spain with documents attatched that placed the invasion at Calais? If so, that most definitely was a British ruse. They have shows on that on the History Channel

 

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Originally posted by pavlovs_dog
is that a reference to the body the Brits planted just off Spain with documents attatched that placed the invasion at Calais? If so, that most definitely was a British ruse. They have shows on that on the History Channel

No, that was a seperate event (and you're right, it was a stunt from start to finish). Cicero was the codename of the valet to the British ambassador in Istanbul, who began passing secret documents to the Geman attache in that city. It *may* have been a straightforward spying operation, but as I mentioned there is some evidence that the British secret service may have known all about it.

 

[Aetius]

I agreed that the German "human" spying was quite unsuccessful but the techinical side wasn't all bad. Both the Germans and the Japanese did manage to crack a lot of the Allied codes. I think that Japanese had the American diplomatic code cracked in 1940 or so. The Germans had some of the british naval codes cracked in the beginning of the war. The Germans were also reasonably successful in destabilising the Middle East providing weapons to all kinds of groups. The Japanese had a quite successful spy organisation using things like brothels and so on to gain information.
Compared to the British Intelligence service they might have been lacking but what about compared to the US or the other states?

 

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I believe the abvere (spelt wrong) the german intelligance didnt even bother to check agents. i was watching a program over here in the u.k on the history channel called millitary blunders and a german landed in a small town in east anglia couldnt speak much english and said he was an american tradesman. double agents told the germans fake divisions in and around dover ready to assault calais

 

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The Japanese had a very good spy system early in the war. Later on the Allies cracked the Japanese codes and virtually all information that was transmitted was intercepted by the Allies. Anyways, early on the Japanese had a great spy system. In the lands in southeast Asia, there were many spies, and all of Pearl Harbor was mapped out. It is said that the Japanese knew Pearl Harbor even better than the soldiers there.

Meiji-Tenno

 

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Originally posted by Meiji-Tenno
The Japanese had a very good spy system early in the war. Later on the Allies cracked the Japanese codes and virtually all information that was transmitted was intercepted by the Allies. Anyways, early on the Japanese had a great spy system. In the lands in southeast Asia, there were many spies, and all of Pearl Harbor was mapped out. It is said that the Japanese knew Pearl Harbor even better than the soldiers there.

Meiji-Tenno

Somehow, however, they did not know that the fuel reserves for the entire Pacific Fleet was right there. The man who planned the attack said that that could have turned the tide of the war.

 

[Aetius]

Originally posted by AmericanScipio
Somehow, however, they did not know that the fuel reserves for the entire Pacific Fleet was right there. The man who planned the attack said that that could have turned the tide of the war.

They knew about it, but the leader of the carrier task force didn't think it was important... The priorities were to knock out the carriers and the battleships.

 

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Originally posted by Aetius


They knew about it, but the leader of the carrier task force didn't think it was important... The priorities were to knock out the carriers and the battleships.

I was just going to say that..

One problem with the Japanese spy system later on in the war was that the Americans got the codes. One of their ships found a Japanese submarine. The rammed it to destroy it. When they searched it after they destroyed it, they found Japanese codes inside. They used the codes to find exactly where Yamamoto was going. This is how they got to kill him. Then, they didn't make any offensives in the Solomons for a while. The Japanese suspected the Americans of figuring out the codes, but since they didn't attack, decided that they didn't and didn't do anything about it. The codes remained the same throughout the rest of the war, and the Allies knew of all Japanese movements.


Meiji-Tenno

 

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there are about a hundred reasons why a second fatal wave wasnt launched, the nut shell version is because they feared losing their carriers after they discovered in the first wave that the 2 of 3 carriers were off delivering planes to Wake and Midway, Lexington i believe was in SF for maintenance. SO, they worried of getting into a naval battle, and retreated.
I would love to get into this more, but its early, and I am tired

 

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Iam preaty sure the Americans broke the Japanese military and civilian codes, so how can their spy agencies be impressive ?The Americans knew about Midway after all..