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Nuclear Elvis

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Another V2 construct that was flawed - that 100% of governments funded Clergy for Education, essentially amounting to State-funding-Church, which was not the way it worked in nations without a State Religion (or that were Secular). I realize they're probably way past this for V3 and it won't be the same problem/flaw in the new game, but that always stuck out as a major flaw in V2, especially with USA funding Clergy when the USA did not fund religious institutions at all (they were only by donation/alms funded), as were many other nations that followed this pattern, along with the other extreme where churches/Clergy were outright banned (many forms of Communist nations).
 
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Nibbes69

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Another V2 construct that was flawed - that 100% of governments funded Clergy for Education, essentially amounting to State-funding-Church, which was not the way it worked in nations without a State Religion (or that were Secular). I realize they're probably way past this for V3 and it won't be the same problem/flaw in the new game, but that always stuck out as a major flaw in V2, especially with USA funding Clergy when the USA did not fund religious institutions at all (they were only by donation/alms funded), as were many other nations that followed this pattern, along with the other extreme where churches/Clergy were outright banned (many forms of Communist nations).
Fully agreeI hope they give us option of either promoting “intellectuals”(public school teachers and secular academics or even writers or journalists maybe too) or clergy(layman if Protestant???).
The main difference intellectuals are one of most inclined to radical beliefs or liberal plus socialist ones especially if state targets or censors them a lot or during general unrest. Basically first group to radicalized is often them not peasants who really don’t start “questioning their place” unless struggling or “uprooted” by industrialization.

Clergy especially Catholics should be most conservative and sometimes borderline reactionary so both increase education by create a different “mindset” in pops taught by them.

The US did have a lot of private religious schools even among Protestants. The Catholics just had better organization and funding. Before 60s and 70s most Italians, Irish, and Catholic Americans went to private Catholic schools. Before “wasp” Protestants flooded them post de segregation. The Catholic Church actually got in trouble in US south for trying to have mix race schools and church was even weary of converting ex slaves outside of Louisiana(some natives Catholic African Americans there due to French legacy) because it would have increased anti Catholicism/anti papalist beliefs in US(“papalist conspiracy” being promoted/yapped about by some hardcore Protestants even when JFK ran).
The Catholic schools were also first to de segregate in US(they aren’t “right wing” like nationalist to be fair).

I know private schools were less big in Europe but they literally educated much of Catholic immigrants here who were formerly illiterate and could barely speak English. That’s why Catholics here are less anti clerical until literally newest pope(many Americans don’t like him even Catholics). They even taught them in their native language and English.

In US religion institutions and charities get tax cuts to point of not even having to pay really any taxes. The Catholic Church and Evangelical church would built hospitals because of this and schools along private ones.

I hope game lets you have private, religious, and public schools all at once. Was US only nation to do that????
 
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Nibbes69

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Indeed not. The education system Institution lets you choose the basis for education, including religious schools, private schools, or public schools. (Or nothing, I suppose.)
The US had all three is one issue I see. Separation of Church and state here is not like Mexico although Catholic Church gets targeted more because it’s international organization in hierarchy and funding with its own intentions/goals.
When a U.S. state tried to ban religious schools in Oregon they got struck down by Supreme Court after local Protestants ironically complained about law and filed a lawsuit/case. They just had less widespread funding then Catholics who even if immigrants are poor the church itself still has money to build churches/Cathedrals, schools, and even many hospitals here are still ran by them or other sects here.

That’s benefit of them and charities not really having to pay taxes here which is our “compromise” between state and church. We aren’t going out of our way to be anti clerical because it sets a dangerous precedent about influence of state over churches especially smaller ones(got less money and networking then Catholics. Especially your small Baptist backwood ones).
 

Nibbes69

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Indeed not. The education system Institution lets you choose the basis for education, including religious schools, private schools, or public schools. (Or nothing, I suppose.)
Also think some of capitalist like Rockefeller or Ford started up some private schools as well. While taxes especially local ones funded public schools here. Literally back then all our taxes went to infrastructure, public schools, courts/law/law enforcement, and rest defense. Even laissez-faire people here supported ideas of public education on top of private and religious because you literally can’t have too many schools or skilled worker(then at least)
 

Nuclear Elvis

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If the Dev's are restricting a national choice to Public, Private, OR Religious Schools, and you only get to choose a single one of the aforementioned -- that is way off the mark for Western nations in general, because 2-3 all coexisted in many developed Western nations during the time period of this game. It wasn't an either/or thing in a more developed nation, but the requirement to fund Public schools, and/or fund a State Religion's schools - that in itself is a huge economic choice that should be part of gameplay. I really don't like the Binary choices put into Game Design, though, if they do go down that road to only pick one type of schooling. It's not historic nor realistic for Western nations.
 
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Vil Béon

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I really look forward to seeing the civil war system, that of A House Divided was great for USA and I hope a similar thing for the Russian Civil War
 

Baneslave

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If the Dev's are restricting a national choice to Public, Private, OR Religious Schools, and you only get to choose a single one of the aforementioned -- that is way off the mark for Western nations in general, because 2-3 all coexisted in many developed Western nations during the time period of this game. It wasn't an either/or thing in a more developed nation, but the requirement to fund Public schools, and/or fund a State Religion's schools - that in itself is a huge economic choice that should be part of gameplay. I really don't like the Binary choices put into Game Design, though, if they do go down that road to only pick one type of schooling. It's not historic nor realistic for Western nations.
Presumably the law is not "every school is type X" but "pre-dominant school type that the government supports is X" thing.
 
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grommile

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If the Dev's are restricting a national choice to Public, Private, OR Religious Schools
The choice is one of "what predominates?"
If the Dev's are restricting a national choice to Public, Private, OR Religious Schools,
As I understand it, the rough outline of the Schooling laws is:

Private Schools: All schools are run by private institutions, be they secular or spiritual.
Religious Schools: The government spends money on mass education by giving it to the state religion to build and run schools with.
Public Schools: The government spends money on mass education by building and running (quasi-)secular schools itself.
 
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Nuclear Elvis

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Presumably the law is not "every school is type X" but "pre-dominant school type that the government supports is X" thing.
Yeah that's a problem though - the government didn't always support Schools!! So it should not necessarily be a Government Budget issue, depending on the nation. While that may not sit well with some players, the fact is - government sponsored AND funded education wasn't the norm in nations during this time period. One could argue that the "public school" approach didn't actually result in better performance, either, depending on whether that nation had enough resources committed toward it. In some nations, only the elites received a decent education from quality instructors - at cost to the parents, not the State.

It is also unrealistic and ahistoric to depict 100% of nations as having a publicly funded education system. The 3rd World/underdeveloped nations didn't even have schools period, and many of the wealthy in such a nation - sent their children out-of-country for schooling, in fact (especially among colonial nations - many were educated either by a Governess/Private Tutor or were shipped off to the Home Country, while the indigenous population went uneducated).
 
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Nuclear Elvis

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The choice is one of "what predominates?"

As I understand it, the rough outline of the Schooling laws is:

Private Schools: All schools are run by private institutions, be they secular or spiritual.
Religious Schools: The government spends money on mass education by giving it to the state religion to build and run schools with.
Public Schools: The government spends money on mass education by building and running (quasi-)secular schools itself.
What about the option for "No Schools" when that appropriately applies in a less developed nation? Not every nation had schools at the start/1835 of Vicky 3 time period. I only mention this because a 3rd World nation should still look very 3rd World by the end of game play (100 years later). Even today, there are nations without schools in many regions of the world. There should be the typical "barrier to entry" that requires a lot of resources to overcome, as this wasn't an Easy Button issue then, nor is it in 2022.
 
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grommile

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What about the option for "No Schools" when that appropriately applies in a less developed nation?
I'm assuming that one means the player (whether human or computer) can't even spend Investment Pool funds on education buildings.
 

InvisibleBison

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What about the option for "No Schools" when that appropriately applies in a less developed nation?
I think the "Private Schools" option will cover these nations. Under that system, education is only available to sufficiently wealthy pops. Since these pre-industrial countries are going to mostly be very poor, the vast majority of their pops won't be able to get an education at all, while the small number of wealthy pops will.
 

Jamaican Castle

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I'm assuming that one means the player (whether human or computer) can't even spend Investment Pool funds on education buildings.
Institutions don't have buildings, only global effects. If there's no government spending in education, then pops are either self-taught or taught by private tutors, etc., which is covered under the wealth effect on literacy. (So a wealthy pop will have decent, if not outstanding literacy, and a poor pop will have diddly.)
 
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Baneslave

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What about the option for "No Schools" when that appropriately applies in a less developed nation? Not every nation had schools at the start/1835 of Vicky 3 time period. I only mention this because a 3rd World nation should still look very 3rd World by the end of game play (100 years later). Even today, there are nations without schools in many regions of the world. There should be the typical "barrier to entry" that requires a lot of resources to overcome, as this wasn't an Easy Button issue then, nor is it in 2022.
IIRC, "None" (or something similar) is a option too.

Presumably the barrier to entry would be the bureaucracy consumption, which does require Buildings, Pops and Goods.
 
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