Pz III with 50mm gun?

[Bakta]

Securing the beachhead

Although I would be the last person telling a research system is approaching tedious micromanagement I'd say HoI1 was by far closest to that. HoI2 is indeed streamlined, but it doesn't make it less fun to use or limit your strategic options. Frankly it increases them, provided that emphasis is on the word strategic. There are very important choices to be made that have far more importance than mere calibre size of a gun.

HoI2 was meant to be Grand Strategy that is Fun, with more detail on any single aspect it's nolonger Grand and for the 90% of people who couldn't care less on that single aspect it wouldn't be any more Fun.

I guess this has been internally debated a lot, but may I warn a bit about possible outcome ?:

- Quite not a few of us, HoI1 players, switched to core for it offered the possibility to tailor tech a little bit more and stick, as close as possible, to historical path.

So if your plan is to broaden the player base so it attracts new players, you may end up losing the old guard while not attracting fresh recruits. After all this brand of game attracts mostly wargamers with less time on their hands than they used to have. Remember Master of Orion III, they too wanted to make it "Fun".

That said, if the tech tree is as flexible as the old one was, mods will be easy to create and eveyrone can enjoy the game at is level or wish.

Cheers,
B

As for the size of the gun, it doesn't matter, it's the way you use it...

Inf support or armour killer I mean

 

[unmerged(11443)]

As long as I can read the descriptions for the techs like in HOI1, I'm happy.

Ditto, I loved reading the historical information.

 

[Grosshaus]

- Quite not a few of us, HoI1 players, switched to core for it offered the possibility to tailor tech a little bit more and stick, as close as possible, to historical path.

With historical years you can make the current tech tree much more closer to historical paths than HoI1 was if you wish.

 

[OLDTIMER]

Hi everybody,

the really interesting thing about technology could be not only how good it is but how available it is. Sticking to tanks we may say that a T34 was roughly SIX times more available that a Panther. The TBO of T34`s engine being 600 hours and Panthers 100 hours.

This means that in order to have EQUAL fighting power in the first line a Panther had to knock out 6 T34`s during 100 hrs engine time. Actually even more considering T34`s ease of maintenance.

I`d like to have this modelled into the game somehow, maybe by IC consumption. Or by diversified hit/survival points for different machines within same weapon generation.

Rgds, Oldtimer

 

[unmerged(457)]

I didn't read all of this thread. But some details just annoyed me enough to reply.


PzIII with 50L60 gun could penetrate T-34 frontal armor.

Schurzen armor (the side skirts) was NOT created to counter HEAT ammunition.

 

[Bakta]

With historical years you can make the current tech tree much more closer to historical paths than HoI1 was if you wish.

This wasn't my meaning.

Tech tree, imho, in HoI1 was a bit too typical. There was not enough level of detail so one ended up in "cookie-cutter" tech design whatever the country one play. In this regard, the core mod allowed more leeway.

As far as I can figure from the demo, so I may err, the level of details is pretty scarce which lend to more cookie-cutter development. The doctrinal fields offers intersting ideas, can't tell how they work out yet.

So, as said above, if it's possible to tailor this tech tree then everyone will be happy. Players will be able to enjoy either the vanilla version orworked out mods as they see fit.

Cheers,
B

 

[ACME]

I don't think HoI2 exactly does what really need to be done (see exact numbers of tanks and men, but CPU power aint up to tracking over a billion different specs yet) but HoI2 seems like it does a better job than HoI2. I don't think its been dumbed down for the masses... It just handles abstraction better.

Agreed. Nobody nor Paradox stated that hoi or hoi2 is compeletely realistic. It is a computer game, a strategic simulator, which is naturally just converging to the real, but not equivalent. And thats okay for me.
I think its so boring: the threads about what would be good, and whats wrong with the game. The game is cool, the coolest in 2004 on Earth can be done, simulates the war well, so guys pls try focus on coolnesses (enjoy!) not only weaknesses. A hot HOI2 MP game is the coolest thing i can imagine in the Virtual Reality we playing in.
Sorry for my rather bad English.

 

[Spruce]

come on guys, be reasonable!

in HOI1 you had to convince one of your family or friends to play secretary to make a checklist and gant chart to avoid forgetting one tech.

How many Barbarossa's did I lose grace to this high level of micromanagement,

so say it very shortly = HOI1 tech tree sucked big time!

 

[unmerged(12303)]

come on guys, be reasonable!

in HOI1 you had to convince one of your family or friends to play secretary to make a checklist and gant chart to avoid forgetting one tech.

How many Barbarossa's did I lose grace to this high level of micromanagement,

so say it very shortly = HOI1 tech tree sucked big time!

he he maybe I played it too much as I picked the techs blindfolded

F

 

[Spruce]

he he maybe I played it too much as I picked the techs blindfolded

F

hehe, or you can count on a skilled secretary! You know, one with long legs, very long legs (now that's how you get to the 88 mm barrel !)

 

[GhengisKhan]

he he maybe I played it too much as I picked the techs blindfolded

F

Me to . I enjoyed the tech tree but i was the only one in my gaming group that knew it well enough to go through and pick the proper techs without having to check a ton of dependancies. The new system looks good and has actually has variance in the doctrines to represent the different ways that war was waged. This system seems to have alleviated all the guesswork for many of the player and added a new level of strategy to the game. IMHO its an improvment. Will i miss my old tech tree? YES! Do i think the new system will be better? YES!

 

[Darkrenown]

I`d like to have this modelled into the game somehow, maybe by IC consumption. Or by diversified hit/survival points for different machines within same weapon generation.

Like I said back on page one:

You mean like the kinds of decisions you can make with techs, doctrines, leaders, ministers, slider-settings, types of units build, makeup of armies, attached brigades and serial vs pararell builds?

 

[unmerged(10750)]

Me to . I enjoyed the tech tree but i was the only one in my gaming group that knew it well enough to go through and pick the proper techs without having to check a ton of dependancies. The new system looks good and has actually has variance in the doctrines to represent the different ways that war was waged. This system seems to have alleviated all the guesswork for many of the player and added a new level of strategy to the game. IMHO its an improvment. Will i miss my old tech tree? YES! Do i think the new system will be better? YES!

I agree with this sentiment. There was a lot of unnecessary work involved in sorting through the old tech trees. There were techs that did nothing but allow you to produce an important tech at a later date, techs that seemed useful but weren't, and the system rewarded the player who scanned through the tech tree, looking for ways to rush to certain great techs. There was a ton of micro-management involved to maximize tech, and frankly I found it annoying.

The new tech system, I'm sure, will have its share of exploits, but it looks dramatically improved.

 

[unmerged(17541)]

.

have to admit that I really like the very sophisticated CORE tech tree !

...but I understand that paradox has streamlined the tech tree - even if it looks like a classic RTS now


I hope that there will be some more design choice implemented later then only the basic doctrines (firepower...)


...at least some general design directions like:

"high tech units" versus "low tech units" - means: if you design a better tank do you try to change production or not (GER vs. US approach)


"cheap components vs. best components" do you use the best components available or the cheapest/best available components you can get?


...hope there will be some general design choices for every basic unit...

A) basic unit as it is - decreased stats / costs - increased stats costs

or B) individual choices on armor, guns, propulsion, equipment


....resulting in more nation specific units with individual stats...


.

 

[unmerged(12303)]

.

A) basic unit as it is - decreased stats / costs - increased stats costs

or B) individual choices on armor, guns, propulsion, equipment

resulting in more nation specific units with individual stats...

Yup thats what I hope - otherwise Poland infantry 39 will be the same as Ger infantry 39, as SOV inf. 39....? So it will be a matter of who has it earlier and more units???? Maybe we can add the modifiers to the doctrines?

F

 

[Darkrenown]

.
...

Am I on everyone's ignore list or what?

 

[unmerged(17541)]

...otherwise Poland infantry 39 will be the same as Ger infantry 39, as SOV inf. 39....?

...and this would be one of my worst nightmares (at least concerning HOI2 )!


.

 

[unmerged(17541)]

Am I on everyone's ignore list or what?

DARK...who ?!! :rofl:


...sorry if I miss something - just skimmed a few posts


.

 

[unmerged(12303)]

DARK...who ?!! :rofl:

handy feature isnt it :rofl:

F

 

[unmerged(29126)]

It looks like the research is gonna be pretty linear. So you're not gonna be making a lot of choices in which direction it goes, but when you do the consequeneces are gonna be pretty dramatic. At least this should make discussions about various research-strategies become a bit more comprehensible ...

The influence the player can have is probably gonna be on when and how much emphasis one puts on which tech-branch (armor, doctrine, air, naval etc.) but AFAI can see the direction of research is gonna be pretty much pre-defined ...

When playing any major nation in HOI1 one would almost automatically develop all the technologies over the years, leading to pretty generic armies.

Now with major pathways being locked-off early in the game, one has to play on one's strength, this should make for more diverse armies ... I will still miss the advanced submachine tech, tho