Putting the Kaiser back in the Kaiserreich

[Sharp163]

My imperfect understanding is that a large portion of the higher ups German Officer Corp were old school monarchists. The end goal of several coups/assassination attempts on Hitler, Von Stauffenberg's Operation Valkyrie most famously, was an eventual restoration of the monarchy.

While this may be true, if the Nazi High Command was suddenly destroyed due to a coup, the nazi war machine would quickly grind to a halt, and the effects would be disastrous on all of their fronts. Furthermore, many of these groups were indeed interested in restoring the monarchy or sueing for peace to allow the continued existence of the German Reich, however the allies were not interested in either of those things. After the Casablanca conference (1943), they would only accept unconditional surrender. A coup would not have saved Germany, in fact, all it would've done is hastened the end of the war. The western allies and the Russians would have treated Germany mostly the same way at the end of the war, coup or not.

The best case scenario would be for the Monarchists to succeed in a coup, have Wilhelm III be put into power, sue for peace rapidly (or lose the war), and then be forced by treaty to either:

1. Dissolve the monarchy and create a republic

Or

2. Create a monarchy similar to the British one, with Wilhelm III as a figurehead and have a Chancellor or Prime Minister wield executive power.

All in all, the chances of permanently restoring the World War One monarchy are exceedingly slim.

PS: cmon gents, i know I've got the unpopular opinion here, but is it really necessary to click disagree on my post? What I'm speaking is the truth...

 

[LukeCorn]

So two possibilities, either a pre-war or even pre-Nazi Germany restoration of the Monarchy. I think Great Brittain France and the rest of Europe would be okay with it if it would be more stable then the Weiimar republic, and of course the Kaiser would make sure communism (which the Western Allies feared/detested so much) wouldn't stand a chance in Germany, so Germany wouldn't have to be an enemy of Great Brittain and France, maybe part of an alliance to bring down Stalin?

A coup to restore the monarchy during the war, probably for Wilhelm III. This as pointed out would be harder. If Nazi atrocities came out and popular German Generals could kill Hitler and the Kaiser promised peace and an end to the killing of Jews (At least Wilhelm II was disgusted by the Kristallnacht if I'm correct) he could come back to power. I doubt if Churchil could refuse a swift end to the war and a situation in which the SU didn't control most of Europe.

 

[Magnus Imperator Rex]

Wait, so you want to end a world war by replacing the WW2 guys with the WW1 guys?

Not happening anytime soon.

Germany was going to be a democracy or dictatorship but monarchists back in power is best suited for fun alt history in games like HOI4.

 

[LukeCorn]

Wait, so you want to end a world war by replacing the WW2 guys with the WW1 guys?

Not happening anytime soon.

Germany was going to be a democracy or dictatorship but monarchists back in power is best suited for fun alt history in games like HOI4.

That was kind of the point of the thread right I know it's not likely any of it would have happened. But then again, real (pre-) WW2 history wasn't the most likely road too right.
This is all in good fun here, just thought experiments

 

[sfmess]

That was kind of the point of the thread right I know it's not likely any of it would have happened. But then again, real (pre-) WW2 history wasn't the most likely road too right.
This is all in good fun here, just thought experiments

This. Hearts of Iron IV is much more about telling your own stories at the crossroads of history within its sandbox. Much more about the COULD HAVE happened than the WOULD HAVE happened in history.

Would Nazi Germany have gone communist, joined the Comintern, and carved up Europe with the Soviet Union? No. Could it have possibly happened in the right circumstances? Eh, maybe. Paradox gives us the opportunity to explore this path.

Would the Soviet Union have gone fascist and join the Axis? No. Could it have possibly happened in the right circumstances? Perhaps...I guess, anything's possible.... Paradox gives us the opportunity to explore this path.

If I as a player want Ireland to have a Fascist coup, join the Axis, and retake Northern Ireland from the damn English, hooray for me. Paradox has afforded to me that option.

Historically, would the western Allies suffered a German Monarchy in the event of a late coup? Probably not. Dead Hitler Super Friends to stop fighting, team up and fight the Soviets? Could have happened. There were plenty in the western Allies that wanted to take the fight to the Soviets, Churchill and MacArthur included. Let's have the option to explore that as players, and decide.

All the players asking for a Monarchist alternative are asking for is a little more flavour and possibilities. More options and flavour is only beneficial to the sandbox replayability of HOIIV.

...and quite honestly, if we're splitting hairs, a Monarchist option or route in many countries is just as plausable, if not more so, than the "add this government character and wait "x" months to go Communist/Fascist/Freedom" option we already have.

 

[frolix42]

USA, where even today some monarchist party will rise up, gather a few million supporters, and then die off pretty quickly

Some say they never die: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_in_the_mountain

 

[sfmess]

Oh dear, the commies really dislike anything that smelled of royalty...

In real life and on internet forums. Haha

 

[BBBD316]

Without a 33 bookmark I don't see it happening, perhaps then Van Pappen is not ousted and to save his Chancellorship pushes for a restoration.

I would much rather see the true Kaiser return to Hungary and then look to reclaim his birth right.

 

[sfmess]

I would much rather see the true Kaiser return to Hungary and then look to reclaim his birth right.

For sure, there are so many opportunities outside of Germany for plausable restoration mechanics. The more the merrier, no reason to just limit it to Germany.

Germany, Hungary(Austria too maybe), and Russia (obviously after Russian Civil war part II - The Whites strike back) are my top 3 hopes.

 

[TheDerpyBeagle]

I agree, it would be great to see a mod or even a DLC adding a Monarchist/Reactionary political party to the game.

 

[BBBD316]

Can we call the faction Imperials?

So the Empire(s) will restore peace and order throughout the world!

 

[sfmess]

Can we call the faction Imperials?

So the Empire(s) will restore peace and order throughout the world!

Haha! If there wasn't copyright issues to worry about, Paradox could name the DLC "The Empire(s) Strike Back!"

 

[Labrynian Rebel]

Haha! If there wasn't copyright issues to worry about, Paradox could name the DLC "The Empire(s) Strike Back!"

Just call it "Sovereign Wars: The Imperium Strikes Back"

 

[BBBD316]

Make it for a Greece to Byzantium and just call it "Purple Reign"

 

[Magnus Imperator Rex]

We should bring the Romans back!

Forget you, Mussolini.

 

[George Parr]

My imperfect understanding is that a large portion of the higher ups German Officer Corp were old school monarchists. The end goal of several coups/assassination attempts on Hitler, Von Stauffenberg's Operation Valkyrie most famously, was an eventual restoration of the monarchy.

That was only one of the ideas, popular with some of the people involved, very unpopular with others, it was very far from certain that monarchy would have been restored if the coup had succeeded. There was a reason why they had chosen Beck as head of state for the time being.
In any case, it wouldn't have been anything like the former monarchy. The Kaiser would have been nothing but a figure-head in a parliamentary system.

There really aren't all that many countries where the restauration of a monarchy was realistic.
Germany returning to a monarchy is purely based on the Nazis downfall, which isn't really realistic for a 1936 start without Germany losing a war.
Neither Austria nor Hungary was going to get a true monarchy, as the Allies wouldn't have allowed it. France had little interest in it, it wasn't going to happen in Spain either, at least not for quite some time. Italy already had a monarch. Russia was very unrealistic at that point as well, maybe after a collapse of the Soviet Union due to a war, but not on its own. There were some Romanov's left, but there was little reason to assume that the population would lift them back on the throne.

As for Finland, there were some ideas to introduce a parliamentary monarchy after the civil war, put the suggested constitution never made it through the senate. A king got elected by the use of the old constitution from 1772, but this ended rather quickly when the German Empire collapsed. Originally the new system that was supposed to follow put most of the power into the hands of the parliament, but to reach a compromise with the monarchist, a strong position of president was chosen instead. It would be extremely unlikely that any Finn would have had much interest in introducing a monarchy in the period HoI IV play in, considering the strong support the Republic had.

 

[Sharp163]

Make it for a Greece to Byzantium and just call it "Purple Reign"

That was their goal during World War One, to restore the Byzantine empire.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megali_Idea

Unfortunately, that idea kinda fizzled out after the Greco-Turkish war following World War One, and the subsequent population exchange between the two countries. Without any more Greeks in Asia Minor, they couldn't really make a claim to taking "rightful Greek lands" there anymore.

 

[seattle]

Not an option right now, can be modded or be sold as dlc

Source? Wilhelm II. used to be in every HoI game afaik.
If he's already in the game, you might only have to mod the death date to 1999 instead of 1941. I doubt that anyone would pay for such DLC when it's a 5 minute modding job. But then again, there are people paying 3 bucks for 2 Crusader Kings songs.

 

[mario1789]

4) USA, where even today some monarchist party will rise up, gather a few million supporters, and then die off pretty quickly

I know you're being cheeky, but it can't be done under our constitution--no titles of nobility may be held by any member of the federal government or by any state government, nor can any member of government receive such a title from a foreign prince. If there was a king over here, he wouldn't be King of the US--we wouldn't be the US anymore....

 

[GhostKiller01]

I know you're being cheeky, but it can't be done under our constitution--no titles of nobility may be held by any member of the federal government or by any state government, nor can any member of government receive such a title from a foreign prince. If there was a king over here, he wouldn't be King of the US--we wouldn't be the US anymore....

Of course, the installment of a monarch, as I stated later, would most likely boil down to a "Second American Civil War". It would be a cool event in order to nerf a USA controlled by a player, as he would just gear up for war instead of building a bunch of random infrastructure in the USA or demilitarize and go into isolation with full civilian economy.
That Civil War, with whatever result, would leave the USA with some good vet troops and army experience that would be useful to anybody, althought the industry and infrastructure would have suffered, as well as the manpower reserves and resources.