Pretty much agree with you there.
Btw, that Sherman quote is also a favorite of mine
Btw, that Sherman quote is also a favorite of mine
Purge Penalties
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Hmm.
I think diplomatic penalty could scale to what rights purged species has in empire reacting to purge.
- Full penalty for "full citizens" and Caste.
- Half penalty for "residency" species.
- Quarter penalty for slaves.
- No penalty at all for undesirables.
Since fanatic xenophiles give everyone full citizenship, they should get equally outraged by all purges. Most empires will get full negative opinion of purger only if its their main race getting purged. And xenophobes that have AI personality that makes them purge everyone by default, would pretty much never care, whereas slaver personalities would get only slightly annoyed: "Why would he waste good workforce?"
It should also scale according to purge method:
- Full penalty for extermination.
- Double penalty for food processing.
- Half penalty for forced labour.
- Quarter penalty for neutering and dispossession.
I think diplomatic penalty could scale to what rights purged species has in empire reacting to purge.
- Full penalty for "full citizens" and Caste.
- Half penalty for "residency" species.
- Quarter penalty for slaves.
- No penalty at all for undesirables.
Since fanatic xenophiles give everyone full citizenship, they should get equally outraged by all purges. Most empires will get full negative opinion of purger only if its their main race getting purged. And xenophobes that have AI personality that makes them purge everyone by default, would pretty much never care, whereas slaver personalities would get only slightly annoyed: "Why would he waste good workforce?"
It should also scale according to purge method:
- Full penalty for extermination.
- Double penalty for food processing.
- Half penalty for forced labour.
- Quarter penalty for neutering and dispossession.
Neutering is systematisch chemical castration/sterrilisation right? So effectively wiping out a race in a generation.
Although you don't make them suffer like forced labour I would say it's worse than dispossession.
That depends on which one considers to be worse, which is subjective. What one values more, personal comfort or future generations?
This is also matter of perceptions.
Dispossessing creates mass of very photogenic people, which you can post on social media to spread the message of their suffering and get likes.
Neutering is something that's little harder to get outraged about, since its more abstract. You'd have to feel sorry about potentially existing children.
Counter question: When you unleash the "giant monster" army on a world, are they going to tippy toe around the women and children when assaulting cities? Here's the quote for xenomorphs btw from the game:
"Ravenous hordes of bio-engineered horrors made up of little more than teeth, claws, and an instinctive urge to kill. A cadre of scientists monitor and supervise the raging swarms as best they can from hardened bunkers behind the front"
Instinctive urge to kill. Little more than teeth and claws. A few scientists hiding in bunkers trying to direct them without getting eaten themselves. NOT micromanaging individual beasts.
It's abundantly clear that these swarms are eating combatants, noncombatants, and civilians alike. They're clearly engineered to be nothing but mindess killing machines akin to a swarm of frenzied pirhanas and the phrase "as best they can" with regards to control makes it clear that the swarm's destruction is barely, if at all contained or directed. Not to mention the environmental devastation.
An absolute warcrime.
And yet, again- there is no in-game mechanical indication to support what you are suggesting- hence, until and unless that changes, we must assume they are deployed in such a manner as to avoid collateral damage in excess of what is generated by any other type of army.
I think you would be well advised to look at the person posting in the future. It wasn't me who said they were necessarily killing civilians, just that it is quite chaotic and could be potentially killing more than just the armies. I said nothing less, nothing more.
I agree in principle, but if we take that description literally then they should heavily and possibly permanently damage the planet as well. And if they did then no one would use them, it's a case of gameplay vs realism. And we all know how that one goes.
Though, it could be an interesting possibility. If you use them, you accelerate the rate at which the planet will collapse, but you damage it in permanent ways or perhaps you have to rebuild or remove new types of tile blockers. It could also have a great impact on foreign relations, a bit like the modifier Terror Bombing, but with War Crimes. It could affect Pacifist and Xenophile the most, the other Ethos reacting according to their war policies and relations with the victim of said atrocities. Afterall, many countries today do not care about atrocities in time of war for the sake of the state or following the doctrine of politics of power, as long as it does not affect their own national interests.
Purge diplomalus should be significant, but not lasting entire game significant. It should decay to some reasonable values, instead of 600 years of -1. Even prepatch agressive expansion could be reduced in EUIV.
Tsk tsk. Because the in game mechanics have not been updated to reflect lore, mechanics determine reality? So I suppose that the dumb things the AI are all canon now? The fact that the AI rebellion event stagnates compared to the other crises, means we should assume AI rebellions were MEANT to stagnate with your logic.
IN GAME lore tells us how we should imagine an event. Mechanics are added to materialize the lore in ways that can interact with us. Mechanics are updated in accordance with the lore in subsequent patches and updates. Lore stays largely the same. There have never been "lore patches" but only "mechanic patches". Your thinking is backwards.
"Guys, CK2 currently does not have China. Therefore China does not exist in the world of CK2!"
"Wouldn't it be more reasonable that China does exist but isn't reflected in the game or that there are historical inaccuracies that merely are in place for gameplay expediency?"
"No!"
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I think it's entirely possible to interpret the xeno soldiers text in such a way that the engineered soldiers are capable of avoiding civilian targets, or which are otherwise utilized in such a way that civilians are no more threatened by them than any other type of ground troops.
This is supported by them not having a diplo malus attached to their usage.
"Guys, CK2 currently does not have China. Therefore China does not exist in the world of CK2!"
"Wouldn't it be more reasonable that China does exist but isn't reflected in the game or that there are historical inaccuracies that merely are in place for gameplay expediency?"
"No!"
"They're not really ravenous beasts of teeth and claws driven purely on instinct, barely controlled by the scientists"
"But that's exactly what the lore says"
"No! I don't get opinion penalties for it so that means after they eat the enemy soldiers, they walk old ladies across the street, fix little Timmy's boo boo, and save kittens in trees!"
Don't be obtuse.
Ravenous instinct-driven monsters under tenuous control could still have certain allowances in their instincts, could still have kill-switches or overrides, could still be selectively deployed. The mechanics don't support them being a war crime, at least not any more than any of the other army types.
Not to be a moderator, but whether or not the monstrosities are devouring civilians is waaaaaaaaay off topic.
Though clearly they are; elsewise the scientists would not have to hide in bunkers.
Though clearly they are; elsewise the scientists would not have to hide in bunkers.
Tell me how would these "kill switches function when a swarm has descended on an enemy occupied city? Millions of monsters cannot be individually prevented from eating innocents. No one said the mechanics make them a war crime. Thats THE ENTIRE POINT of this discussion. To point out the contradiction between purging being a warcrime and xenomorphs not being one.
It appears that you're hell bent on selectively ignoring the in game lore to support your distorted impression of xenomorphs and harmonize the mechanics. However, lore is what stays and is not patched. Mechanics are updated and patched and thus are ideally supposed to closely represent the lore. If they fall short, all that means is that there's a contradiction. And that's fine as long as we don't go down the path of mental gymnastics like you're doing to retroactively harmonize what can't be.
It is not. The point is that purge penalties should not function as they do. They're arbitrarily high and far reaching and for them to be as they are is weird as there are plenty of other things that we do to planets that SHOULD also make us suffer negative opinion penalties.
how are they arbitrarily high? hearing that members of your particular demographic for exterminated en masse generally tends to make you not like the people who slaughtered them. and news of genocide generally tends to spread and become known eventually.
Where does the game say that all species have female and juvenile forms?
Well, every playable species in game has male and female forms.