They have decisions to prospect, but Italys focuses adds infrastructure (crucial for supply in North Africa as I learned the hard way) and some synthetic factories + slots for said factories
Puppet vs. Annex: Special Case of Germany-Hungary+Romania
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They have decisions to prospect, but Italys focuses adds infrastructure (crucial for supply in North Africa as I learned the hard way) and some synthetic factories + slots for said factories
Honestly?
Because occupation is so generous in HOI4 (assuming you don't annex them prior to the big war starting so they generate no resistance), you might as well conquer them.
It's so profitable that we banned deliberately DOWing and annexing the Balkan minors in our MP group. (There are situations where some of them still get annexed, like when Romania guaranteed Greece like a boss.)
The manpower loss is compensated for by the 100% use of factories and resources. I'll just put more Germans into uniform and give them more tanks and planes.
That being said, puppeting is better than leaving them independent. I didn't realize that was how those NFs worked until I had already played to 1939 at one point, so I haven't tried them out yet. I suspect that the question is how valuable they are with the 270 day NF cost.
Because occupation is so generous in HOI4 (assuming you don't annex them prior to the big war starting so they generate no resistance), you might as well conquer them.
It's so profitable that we banned deliberately DOWing and annexing the Balkan minors in our MP group. (There are situations where some of them still get annexed, like when Romania guaranteed Greece like a boss.)
The manpower loss is compensated for by the 100% use of factories and resources. I'll just put more Germans into uniform and give them more tanks and planes.
That being said, puppeting is better than leaving them independent. I didn't realize that was how those NFs worked until I had already played to 1939 at one point, so I haven't tried them out yet. I suspect that the question is how valuable they are with the 270 day NF cost.
Nonetheless, you can do the focus, release, and trade for the resources with the free civilian factories you get from the puppet. The puppet then uses its own civ/mil factories to do some small improvements. Overall supply should end up better on core territory rather than needing convoys importing through ports, though I'm not entirely sure on the supply mechanics.
And again, you can always get much more resources from puppets than you would yourself on annexed territory running Export Focus/Free trade law. Staying on those means a fairly huge bonus to all production/construction/research.
The main problem i encounteres was that I couldnt get their autonomy lowered so i could use more of their MP per devision. Like 90 or 100% being supplied by the puppet.
Does annexing a country also give you the 50% loss of non-cores on resources ? Ive never actually noticed that. I dont think thats a thing?
Does annexing a country also give you the 50% loss of non-cores on resources ? Ive never actually noticed that. I dont think thats a thing?
Yeah, that's kind of a waste to try for for most puppets.
There's no 50% penalty for resources (aside from your trade law). There's a 50% penalty to the max number of factories that can be built per state, however if the state is already above this when you annex it won't lose any, you just can't build more. Theoretically puppeting a country and building it up to its factory limit before re-annexing would give you 100% more factories in the land than if you annexed it first and built it up yourself.
This talk of puppets leads me to think that Subjugate Warlords in China is probably better than United Front.
I think United Front may be worth it in situations where you don't have much time - e.g a MP match where Japan is rushing to go to war. But in SP, Subjugate warlords is the better route
Even if I was MP Hungary or Romania I'd probably be down with the puppet. That's an extra 16 mils total between the three
Trust me here, with MEFO bills Germany's limit is NOT factories. It's resources and manpower. Ergo, puppets are lucrative. Himmler's noncore MP andh is SS help with this a bit but a couple Balkan puppets go a very long way MP wise
Trust me here, with MEFO bills Germany's limit is NOT factories. It's resources and manpower. Ergo, puppets are lucrative. Himmler's noncore MP andh is SS help with this a bit but a couple Balkan puppets go a very long way MP wise
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My normal strat as Germany is just straight up destroy the axis before I unpause and take out Italy before they start anything (usually after franceWow! Thanks a ton folks! Some truly fantastic responses, too many to single out and thanks specifically!
My solution to this (as Germany) is to REFUSE to ally with Italy and Japan!
Based on the high quality feedback in this thread, I'm definitely gonna try the puppet route this first time.
)
Haven't tried yet, but given that Germany likely has the PP for it, if you are willing to pay for it (likely in convoys, if you are willing to concede the seas to the allies for the foreseeable future), you could theoretically puppet them and quickly afterward annex them peacefully, giving you a total of 8 mil factories for each of Romania and Hungary, for a total of 16, plus the usual factories each country have.
Loses out on the puppet manpower, but neither country have enough of it to be completely game changing (unlike getting some variant of China as a puppet ).
Loses out on the puppet manpower, but neither country have enough of it to be completely game changing (unlike getting some variant of China as a puppet
).Are you totally sure about this?
I'm sure that in case i annex core states in a conference that state can end up having less factories than it used to. For this reason i always postpone the defeat of the enemy in case a new industry level is nearby since this way i can get more factories in the conference. Especially important when defeating a major faction.
Hmm, you seem to be right. Could have sworn it was different for annexed puppets before.
They do keep their # of bonus factories in state from NFs though. Maybe that's what confused me.
They do keep their # of bonus factories in state from NFs though. Maybe that's what confused me.
Maybe they keep the bonus slots. I did not check that.
But it's pretty common that you e.g. annex Moscow which used to have say 15 factories and after annex you get 11.