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Zuckergußgebäck

Den ökända hästen från Troja
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Jan 7, 2004
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Ruisert said:
But seriously, almost no population is so homogeneous that you couldn't find some willing tools to take whatever side you represent, if not out of ideology then out of greed or the lust for power. Vidkun Quisling ring any bells? All you have to do is spend the time and money and you will generally have some bit of the population sympathetic to your cause. How much depends on a large number of variables that would probably be hard to account for in any game.
But the plain fact remains that most people are more amenable to being governed by their own people as opposed to a foreign power, however much the puppet government is a pretense. And yes, you can always find people who are willing to fight for a cause or just for enough cash. Especially if you excel at propaganda...
As far as I know, no country occupied by Germany contributed enough manpower to set up a complete ethnically non-German division. Even the Wiking and Nordland divisions were mainly German, with a few companies of international volunteers.

EDIT: OK, so the SS Divison Galizien does spring to mind, but it was commanded by Germans, and consisted of Ukrainians who has spent the twenties and early thirties starving and being persecuted by the Soviets. As far as I know, the situation is Texas was a wee bit different.
 
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unmerged(61852)

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Oct 18, 2006
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Hey I just wanted to thank everyone for your thought provoking answers to my original post. I'm glad I'm not the only person who finds this aspect of the game wanting. That won't stop me from spending the rest of my summer vacation on it though. :rolleyes:
 

NomadicStorm

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The puppeting itself is rather realistic. But what I'd like to see, to make it better, would be for you to be able to pick the provinces and name of the area you release yourself - and have the newly independent nation still have some partisan activity. Maybe reducing it to 25% of the original value for the puppet regime.

One fine example of the whole fighting-against-one-another deal is already set up in hoi2, actually, in the form of Vichy france. The Vichy government were essentially german puppets, and they were quite hostile towards the nations they had considered allies mere months ago. The only thing that kept them from siding with the germans was really fear of the allies and their own contempt of the german invaders. The leaders of the so-called "free france" were branded traitors in their homeland. The government dictates the actions of the people.

Historical examples of radical changes in a people's beliefs and actions can be found in pretty much any revolution as well. Just look at the october revolution in Russia. Again - the government dictates the people's sentiments, through propaganda and law. The propaganda thrown in by the puppet governments will make some people agree with them, while the threat of punishment and death will make others reluctantly assist them. It's no different than an occupied province, really, except a puppet government gives the people a semblance of independence.

Although there were few foreign volunteers in the german war machine, a large portion of their industry was kept up by foreign labour towards the end of the war. And that's german industry - not just occupied industry. Fear will make the common man do pretty much anything. The one who controls the law, controls the people. So in the Texas scenario, some would serve out of willingness through propaganda, while others would serve out of fear of punishment.

But yes, I'd like to see the puppetted regimes retain a small portion of the partisan activity.
 

unmerged(47103)

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Aug 3, 2005
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Zuckergußgebäck said:
As far as I know, no country occupied by Germany contributed enough manpower to set up a complete ethnically non-German division. Even the Wiking and Nordland divisions were mainly German, with a few companies of international volunteers.

EDIT: OK, so the SS Divison Galizien does spring to mind, but it was commanded by Germans, and consisted of Ukrainians who has spent the twenties and early thirties starving and being persecuted by the Soviets. As far as I know, the situation is Texas was a wee bit different.

I'll go get some sources to quote some exact figures, but I think you might be surprised to find just how many troops served with Germany - the Cossacks, for example, created a number of divisions, as did some predominantly Moslem USSR satellite states (the Germans even went so far as to train Imams in Germany!!). Certainly the bulk of these troops were sourced from regions oppressed by the USSR (the Ukraine, for example, had approximately 4 MILLION people die of starvation in 1933 due to Stalin's policies re collectivisation etc....that sort of behaviour is enough to make most people embrace just about anyone else.....).