Puppet loses buildings after being released from annex? Why?

[Gigaus]

Okay, so I annexed puppet Romania as Germany, after having built a bunch of Mils in their land. After releasing them to be not a puppet, and invite to faction, the buildings are gone, including some building that are default for them. The issue isn't when I annex them but when I release them.

See images:

https://imgur.com/a/aRGlhQr

So my question is....why do they suddenly lose buildings? And building slots too, because they end up with less slots than when they were puppeted. What's going on here?

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

My guess is because the process creates new country. Said country gets no bonus slots form focuses/decisions, while technology buff gets applied only after country creation.

 

[Gigaus]

Then why do I keep them when I annex them? Shouldn't it be a straight trade?

edit: Better question: Don't focuses/decisions modify the tile/land, and not the country? If I add 2 building slots to Hannover, and somehow the country in question gets reloaded, the state itself still has those extra slots, right?

And more over, when you release an occupied country to it's core, puppet or otherwise, it has all the effects of focuses, decisions, and spirits in play already. If this were the case, reloading the country with all those done would mean you could never get those bonuses again, right?

It seems selective. It causes the same problem with Sweden, but not Poland or France. Resetting the latter two doesn't effect their building slots, but resetting Romania, Chez, or Sweden does.

Seems like a bug unless someone had input as to what's causing this. Or if there's a way to avoid it that I'm just missing

 

[Toby84]

If you annex a puppet its not your core area. In Core area you have 100% more slots.

No core anymore -> less slots -> less buildings

 

[Gigaus]

If you annex a puppet its not your core area. In Core area you have 100% more slots.

No core anymore -> less slots -> less buildings

Right; That's not the issue here. Look at the pictures for proof: the first two are when they're puppet, second is when I've annexed them and hold the states, third is when they've been released.

When I annex them and hold their states, non-core to me, all the buildings are there and I have 100% of the slots they had. When I release them, they lose buildings AND slots. It sounds like what you said would be true, but for some reason, it's not....

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Incidentally, it has to do with the reinitializing a country part. I tested this with Sweden before they were puppeted. Before, they had 100% of their slots filled, and when I held their states during war, everything was yet again all there. It's when I puppeted them through PC or Form the Riche focus that they suddenly lose buildings and slots. However, if I force them out of being a puppet without reinting their country through annex+release, they keep their buildings. I can't see this as being intentional, so I'm going to post in the bug section, doubt this has ever come up pre-LR, because why would it, so it's probably an oversight.

Still, thoughts and comments would be appreciated.

 

[Voigt]

Could be that they loose building slots for missing industry tech, which get added to the nation after they their states.

 

[Gigaus]

Could be that they loose building slots for missing industry tech, which get added to the nation after they their states.

I think that might be the case. The number of slots that aren't emptied is consistent with the starting number before techs. But the number after isn't consistent with the number of techs+focuses. And, again, last I remember the latter applies to the state itself, not the country that holds it. It'd make no sense why, regardless of owner, if someone does the 'intergrate industry' decision to open up another slot would suddenly be wiped away just because the state changed hands again in a specific way. 'mean, I've had games [with friends] where someone builds up the Paris Metro with extra slots, and then gets capped by [insert almost any country] and the slots opened by foci and decisions are still there even when the new owner hasn't done them. Why would reinting a country suddenly reset state side adjustments?

Honestly, without digging in the code/console log, this sounds like the most likely issue. but I can't imagine why. It seems like that game is fully resetting the whole of the core-states' data when the country is released...

 

[bitmode]

So my question is....why do they suddenly lose buildings? And building slots too, because they end up with less slots than when they were puppeted. What's going on here?

Multiple reasons. For one, it seems to be intentional that extra building slots are lost when the owner changes. There is a define for that: OWNER_CHANGE_EXTRA_SHARED_SLOTS_FACTOR = 0.5.
After an ownership change the state will only have 50% of its previous extra building slots, rounded down.

The other reason is a bug during the state handover, as you suspected. The building cap gets recalculated before the new owner gains control of the state and state control determines the the building slot penalty for non-core states.
When Germany took control of the states, the penalty was not applied and when Romania took over again the penalty was applied. Both of these are bugs; it should be reversed.
The end result of Romania losing a ton of building slots seems to be intended but it should have happened in the earlier step.

Btw, this affects all scenarios of state ownership change, not just releasing a country.

I can't see this as being intentional, so I'm going to post in the bug section, doubt this has ever come up pre-LR, because why would it, so it's probably an oversight.

The functionality of buildings being torn down in response to an owner change is intentional. There are even surprisingly detailed rules of which buildings get reduced by how much.

 

[Mr_Dimento]

Mysterious magical buildings vanish instantly overnight!

 

[Gigaus]

Multiple reasons. For one, it seems to be intentional that extra building slots are lost when the owner changes. There is a define for that: OWNER_CHANGE_EXTRA_SHARED_SLOTS_FACTOR = 0.5.
After an ownership change the state will only have 50% of its previous extra building slots, rounded down.

The other reason is a bug during the state handover, as you suspected. The building cap gets recalculated before the new owner gains control of the state and state control determines the the building slot penalty for non-core states.
When Germany took control of the states, the penalty was not applied and when Romania took over again the penalty was applied. Both of these are bugs; it should be reversed.
The end result of Romania losing a ton of building slots seems to be intended but it should have happened in the earlier step.

Btw, this affects all scenarios of state ownership change, not just releasing a country.

The functionality of buildings being torn down in response to an owner change is intentional. There are even surprisingly detailed rules of which buildings get reduced by how much.

Okay, this makes sense. The thing that was getting me is that as the guy taking the states as non-cores, I wasn't losing anything and that didn't make sense unless I assumed that it just didn't rip out the buildings due to absent building slots, yet the guy with the core was. That it's basically a flipped situation makes this a typo error rather than a logic one.

And if it's intended to, it's not. Full disclosure, I'm country flipping these states to get more operatives as SP Germany, and this reduction doesn't take place with some countries, namely France, Poland, and UK. I build up to max slots, annex, release, and get two different results: The above for countries like Sweden and Romania, and no change in the number of slots for France and the others. I can get the latter group upto 40 factories no problem, and then flip them into be independent with having all 40 still.

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Still, if this is intentional, which seems reasonable.....This basically means it's semi impossible for non-Allies countries to get more operatives without some kind of focus. And even then, only one country will get them. Most the euro-countries don't have enough factories to make the cut, and the ones that do are all 'majors' who will never join a faction.....And making satellite countries is impossible due to how the AI works...

 

[Vlad123]

as mentioned, let's add it to the bug ... and here's the absurd situation ... maybe the thing of the 0.5 change is to prevent one from getting, hypothetically a small nation but 25/25 shared built (thus making the above-mentioned provinces VERY appetizing)

 

[bitmode]

And if it's intended to, it's not. Full disclosure, I'm country flipping these states to get more operatives as SP Germany, and this reduction doesn't take place with some countries, namely France, Poland, and UK. I build up to max slots, annex, release, and get two different results: The above for countries like Sweden and Romania, and no change in the number of slots for France and the others. I can get the latter group upto 40 factories no problem, and then flip them into be independent with having all 40 still.

Hm maybe it's just that you don't need to build up the larger nations as close to the building slot limit? I'll see if I can reproduce the different scenario.

Edit: I don't have LaR, so I can't reproduce your exact scenario but I tried the following steps:

• start as GER
• annex FRA
• release FRA as puppet (TfV feature)
• with instant_construction, fill up all factory slots in France -> Ile de France now has 10 factories
• annex FRA
• -> Ile de France still has 10 factories
• release FRA as free country
• -> Ile de France has 5 factories and 10 slots
• same behavior in other states

 

[Gigaus]

as mentioned, let's add it to the bug ... and here's the absurd situation ... maybe the thing of the 0.5 change is to prevent one from getting, hypothetically a small nation but 25/25 shared built (thus making the above-mentioned provinces VERY appetizing)

You can do that anyway. If they're puppet, you just build infra for them, and the AI will continually do the 100p region integration decision. And if not, you can just boost compliance in less than a year to 60~90%, making the building available regardless. Even when you factor in the way it's meant to be when someone occupies the state, it's still a lot at the end of the day.

Hm maybe it's just that you don't need to build up the larger nations as close to the building slot limit? I'll see if I can reproduce the different scenario.

Edit: I don't have LaR, so I can't reproduce your exact scenario but I tried the following steps:

• start as GER
• annex FRA
• release FRA as puppet (TfV feature)
• with instant_construction, fill up all factory slots in France -> Ile de France now has 10 factories
• annex FRA
• -> Ile de France still has 10 factories
• release FRA as free country
• -> Ile de France has 5 factories and 10 slots
• same behavior in other states

You need LaR. LaR changes how some things are handled with puppets, which is probably why this situation is happening in the first place.

Also, no, that's no the issue. The issue is that only -some- countries are losing their build slots, but not others. In this instance, I 'freed' France and Romania at the same time, and only Romania lost build slots, France didn't. Going to dig around more when I have free time, but this is definitely a problem with LaR it seems.