Pulse lasers?

[Packrat]

That's a missed opportunity HBS might want to put to use, as BT progresses through the TL and pulse laser tech becomes more common (or players get annoyed because they hunted for valuable lostech and left with yet another laser that can't keep up with even the standard ML)

This sort of thing is exactly why I think this particular game won't be progressing through the timeline, and any other era would be covered in a full sequel.

This game was very obviously made only taking 3025 tech into account. Trying to expand it out to common use of lostech would make things real ugly real fast.

 

[44th MAC|Bonsai]

This game was very obviously made only taking 3025 tech into account. Trying to expand it out to common use of lostech would make things real ugly real fast.

Some might say this is true for all BT ever existent. Whatever it is, I hope for some creative implementation of the new tech, as it offers some opportunites - be it here or in a sequel.

 

[BARBOSA (Aries)]

I chose the pulse lasers on that flashpoint only to get more DHS. No regrets. DHS rules as lostech should.

I feel even gauss rifles + compare poorly to AC/5++ (75 dmg - 13t x 60dmg - 8t). And currently they´re the only decent lostech weapons.

ER/Pulse weapons are just waste of tonnage unless seriously improved.

 

[Timaeus]

I think, LosTech weapons should maybe try to be be equivalent of "weapon+" to start out. But part of the issue is eg. lg pulse lasers are more or less "weapon+" compared to a large laser, but it weighs more (and more heat), and therefore is not as good.

 

[Timaeus]

...urban Warfare the timeline will be moved up to 3028

Has this been said somewhere?

 

[jj284b]

Has this been said somewhere?

Flashpoint timeline ends at 3028 (starts at 3025 +1200 days = 3028)

 

[Timaeus]

Flashpoint timeline ends at 3028 (starts at 3025 +1200 days = 3028)

Yes...but that does not confirm that Urban Warfare will advance the timeline.

 

[Havamal]

The game has always had a soft timeline end at 3028 even pre-expansion because "stuff" starts happening in 3028 that this game is not yet ready to tackle.


When the Devs are eventually ready to move the timeline forward I'm sure we'll hear about it in official promotion.

Until then for my part I'll take the conservative view that unless it's stated, there is no timeline advancement in the short term immediate future.

 

[AussieGiant]

The game has always had a soft timeline end at 3028 even pre-expansion because "stuff" starts happening in 3028 that this game is not yet ready to tackle.


When the Devs are eventually ready to move the timeline forward I'm sure we'll hear about it in official promotion.

Until then for my part I'll take the conservative view that unless it's stated, there is no timeline advancement in the short term immediate future.

Agreed. I take the view that we are all rattling around in the "southern" rimward periphery in the mid-3020's. No surprise that we are directly opposite the invasion path. And thank god really

 

[Blade_mercurial]

Weapon balance is all over the place in this game. Fortunately, its relatively easy to go into the JSON files and adjust them.

In my game, I've made a number of changes to make weapons feel not only closer to their tabletop versions, but more balanced overall. My pulse lasers do about 50% more damage than a stock non-pulse laser, and also ignore one evasive pip (in addition to the laser's +1 accuracy bonus). That makes them just slightly more worthwhile than stock non-pulse lasers (which in my opinion is how all lostech should feel). Their advantages of course feel slightly diminished relative to '+++' non-pulse lasers, but that seems fair to me.

The Gauss Rifle I think WAS done correctly though. It gets a +1 accuracy bonus in addition to its long range, high damage and very high stability damage (arguably too high, since its the same as AC/20).

Other 'poorly' balanced weapons include the AC/2, AC/5, large laser, PPC (and ER PPC) and the flamer. I've adjusted these too, and am happy with my changes. Having that flexibility is one of the reasons I really love this game!

 

[jj284b]

technically speaking, Pulse Lasers are supposed to hit the target with multiple beams, for increased damage as they hit the precisely same place.. therefore in the game, they should get increased damage vs normal lasers and probably also less heat generation, as multiple short pulses should create less heat than single long burst with normal laser..

So Medium Pulse could do 35 base damage, with 10 heat, but should weight 2 tons. Large Pulse Laser should deal 50 base damage, 16 heat. (+/++ versions could increase it further)

Anyway, if damage stays as it is currently, then heat should go drastically down.. it makes no sense technically for a weapon with only marginally higher DMG but much larger weight of the weapon to produce that much heat.. If anything, double weight should help dissipate heat faster, considering power output of MPL is not much higher of ordinary ML... (30 vs 25)

 

[Jade_Rook]

The advantage for pulse lasers in tabletop is accuracy and a little extra damage. The disadvantage is weight and heat. The base pulse lasers already have an additional +1 accuracy and +5 damage over regular lasers. Considering + rating lasers can get a total of +4 accuracy, I would increase the pulse lasers to +3 accuracy total (1 higher than they currently have). I would also give them bonus crit chance as that makes sense for repeated pulses. For + rating pulse lasers, I would give them additional damage and crit chance. For example, I would give a PL ++ an additional +10 damage and +50% crit chance. A MPL ++ would deal 40 damage with +50% crit chance and +3 accuracy. It also weighs 2 tons, uses 16 heat, is very rare, and is compared to a ML ++ which can deal 35 damage and only requires 1 ton and 12 heat.

(I would also reduce the max accuracy bonus on + grade lasers so they are never more accurate than pulse lasers. Matching is fine, but they shouldn't be superior.)

 

[jj284b]

overall, increased heat doesnt really make sense for weapon with higher mass (weight) and same/similar output power to non-beam laser.. whole point of using beam is to reduce peak energy, so such weapon would definitely not produce more heat.. If anything, it would be more efficient at it.

 

[Pherdnut]

What is the Battletech pulse laser really though?

Is it like the Piranha version where it's effectively a continuous beam you can scribble across a surface with or is it more like a very rapid series of pulses that are closer to a one-hit to one-part effectively instantaneous dealie?

If it's the latter, what's the advantage of the pulsing? Is it kind of gatlingish where something heat-prone gets swapped out to allow for more beam on the surface just a little bit longer? Or is it just not-very-sciencey '80s gamer logic that multiple pew is better than one pew?

 

[Curuno]

It is pretty poinless. I agree with the OP. Been arguing i favour of such a system since beta. Certain weapons (pulse, AC2 and AC5) would benefit from muliple shots instead of higher damage output so the choice would be between higher overall damage albeit likely not on the same section, and higher pinpoint damage. So a mpl could do 2 attacks at 20 dmg vs a normal ml which would do single attack at 25 points. This would make them unique and useful instead of a waste of tonnage.

I have to agree. Pulse lasers would be a big win in the early game when you have lower skill pilots and you're more likely to fight fast moving lights and mediums - once you get veteran pilots and start fighting heavies and assaults the accuracy bonus is largely wasted.

Having a Medium Pulse fire a group of 3x10 damage shots with tight clustering would give them a role as crit seekers. While still heavy and high heat, the performance difference would be enough to justify trade-offs on certain builds.

 

[jj284b]

Sarna.net states:

"Pulse lasers differ from traditional laser weaponry, in that instead of firing one powerful beam, they maintain several laser beams fired off in quick succession. While offering an overall increased rate of fire, the heat output also increases accordingly. Pulse lasers increase damage because they allow vaporized armor to dissipate from the location of damage. This allows subsequent pulses to reach the target area without being diffused by the vapor."


Anyway from technical perspective, it makes no sense... multiple weaker pulses would not produce more heat.. they would produce less, because you are not using peak power... Only explanation to this is that these rules were written in 80ties by somebody with just basic physics knowledge, yet in this case, its terribly wrong.. Even if you actually used peek power for pulses, their limited time would automatically mean weapon would overheat a lot less than weapon that would use same amount of power but with one constant beam...

Anyway, Sarna.net stats for Medium Pulse Laser are 6DMG and 4Heat, which translates to 30Dmg and 12Heat (5xDmg 3xHeat).. so yeah, current weapons have way too much heat..

 

[ronhatch]

Flashpoint timeline ends at 3028 (starts at 3025 +1200 days = 3028)

Technically, it is career mode that has a 1,200 day timer... so it only relates to the Flashpoint expansion in that it was released the same day.

So expecting the next expansion to advance the timeline is reading a LOT into it.

(Though this is all a tangent anyway.)

 

[Packrat]

Only explanation to this is that these rules were written in 80ties by somebody with just basic physics knowledge, yet in this case, its terribly wrong..

That pretty much sums up BT tech fluff, yeah.

 

[Aleksandria]

I would say its less "they got the physics wrong" and more "shut up its [Mod Edit: language] cool" as a design philosophy. Which to be fair I'm totally game for throwing physics out the window if it lets me blow someone up with the laser equivalent of flicking the light switch really fast.

 

[Pherdnut]

I chose the pulse lasers on that flashpoint only to get more DHS. No regrets. DHS rules as lostech should.

I feel even gauss rifles + compare poorly to AC/5++ (75 dmg - 13t x 60dmg - 8t). And currently they´re the only decent lostech weapons.

ER/Pulse weapons are just waste of tonnage unless seriously improved.

AC/5++ Kali is a good AC but it does 55. It deserves another ton worth of credit in comparison for having 15 ammo per ton rather than 8 though. Having at least 10 shots for ammo weapons seems to be about what I need to never run out on 99% of missions. 8 is just enough to run out at the very end pretty regularly - nice balancing @Devs.

Point of interest with the AC/10+ and ++ Kalis is that it they do enough to blow heads off in one shot at 65/70. This matters a lot to a multi-weapon build strategy aiming at doing just that, although pretty sure lots of even smaller weapons at closer range is still the way to go unless you want head-popping at longer ranges. On that note, the Gauss ++ weighs one ton more, generates less than half the heat, 10 more damage and is much longer range than an AC/10 ++ Kali.