Public Service Announcement regarding 1.4

[themousemaster]

As Kallocian has now closed down the "your biggest issues" thread, I feel compelled to make a post that, while I would assume to be logically obvious, seems to be often... subconciously "swept under the rug" in online fora.


Patch 1.4 is going to be coming. When, who knows, but it will. It will fix bugs, it will change things... and as Kallocian said in his closing statement, not everything will be in 1.4, or for that matter, ever "officially" done (modding doesn't count).


As such, I wish to enunciate a few key things that needs to be understood with ANY patch in ANY customer-related program:


1) Just because they want to change it, doesn't mean they will change it *this* time.

--- Part of that large thread was not just to gather who wants what, but how many people want it. However, if there are 2 equally-difficult-to-change issues in that list, they only have time for 1, and one had 10X the "mentions" of the other, then the 10X winner will get the 1.4 billing. If you were in the 1X camp, this does not mean they hate you.

2) Just because they don't change it, doesn't mean they don't know it needs to be changed.

--- It was stated that they are looking at the core reason behind the superstack issue; this, however, was not a promise that it will be fixed. They will, I'm certain, continue to hammer at the superstack problem until it IS fixed; however, if every other forum on the planet is any indication, if they have not PERFECTLY taken care of superstacking, there will be an uprising of people that say something along the lines of "You lied to us! You promised it would be fixed! Your company sucks, you should all be fired, <various illegal threats>, etc. etc. While I don't think me posting this will make the agitated naysayers any less agitatedly-naysaying, it should be realized that this type of hyper-emotional backlash is the primary reason why developers STOP paying attention to their forums; so far, Paradox has shown that they listen to their playerbase beyond the "simple survey" method that MMORPG companies specialize in. Such responses would be a big step in ruining that.

3) A patch goes through beta. But programmers, and testers, are Human.

--- As was indicated VERY well by the state v1.0 was in, a company can release something that it thinks is great because they put their hearts into it, AND the testers they got to try it out agreed. V1.4 will have a beta period as well, but that doesn't mean that it won't have bugs of it's own. If something is discovered, blowing a gasket in these general forums is NOT the way to get it addressed. There is a bug forum. New bugs can be added there. Posting "you're new Checksum broke the game, way to go Patheticdox " helps no one with anything. If you want to let off steam, go outside and punch a tree, then come back and fill out a bug report (or see if it's already reported, and ADD TO THE EXISTING BUG THREAD with your additional info). If you honestly want the game to get better, there are avenues for doing just that. posting hate-spam on a general board isn't one of them.



And the most important aspect, that is an unwanted cornerstone of Online forum-mongering...

4) Just because they didn't change/add something YOU suggested, does not mean they hate you, or the community.

--- The propensity of people to assume they speak for everyone because there were 2+ mentions of something is an aspect of computing that designers have learned to ignore. However, while designers know better that to listen to the likes of "your patch didn't change the American flag to have a deeper shade of blue! Way to ignore your customers!", when those types of self-gratifying threads start packing a forum, then developers start LEAVING forums, and other respectable individuals go with them.

Despite the "you are a special snowflake" mentality that seems to be going around these days, if you are truly concerned for the game, you will take the step to realize that you are actually 1 person among many, and actions that do not follow as such will not help anyone.

Furthermore, there is an understanding that the people who generally come to, and post, on a forum fall under 2 categories: those who like talking about the game, and those who are upset with something and want to complain. Just because something was said with a higher propensity on these forums than most other things, does NOT mean that it is a majority representation. There are a number of people on these boards indicating that they want more historical accuracy; however, the people who like the a-historical results from a given timeframe (like myself) may well not be here to state their own opinions. Are there more "happy with ahistorical" people than there are "want more historical"? I don't know. I just know that neither aspect can be proffered as "majority fact".






Footnote: I'm sure someone will see this thread and make the posting point #4, as an act by itself, makes me some kind of hypocrite. However, in addition to pointing out that I am not directing any of these points to Paradox itself, I will also point out that I am following my own advice. I made my post in the Kallocian thread, I've submitted a bug report (in the correct forum, albeit it took me a while to get around to the save-zip attachment), and I've *tried* to offer my own opinions in the extra-large Jackda-Derm thread without... shall I say, "excommunicating" either party, as many in that thread seem to. Furthermore, while my post int he Kallocian thread asks for Surface Ships to be given a new "shore bombardment" ability to augment their (IMO minimal) % impact on combat, I also fully realize that such an addition is NOT a likely candidate for 1.4, and will not berate Paradox for not having it.

 

[jju_57]

Actually they may in fact do hate some of us. :wacko:

 

[dogfish8]

I've played close to 300 hours of HOI3 so far. Paradox doesn't owe me anything else for my $50.

They keep giving it anyway.

<3

 

[themousemaster]

Actually they may in fact do hate some of us. :wacko:

Ok, well, it's possible they may hate some of you but not simply indicated because they didn't use a suggestion you made

 

[delra]

Actually they may in fact do hate some of us. :wacko:

Let's hate some of them in return!

I don't get why they closed the good thread, lots of constructive posts in there which isn't common for this forum. I'd rather see them coming. Since almost all posts were things I agree with, I'm not worried based on it devs will take my game wrong direction.

I hope a new one will be started after 1.4.

 

[themousemaster]

Let's hate some of them in return!

I don't get why they closed the good thread, lots of constructive posts in there which isn't common for this forum. I'd rather see them coming. Since almost all posts were things I agree with, I'm not worried based on it devs will take my game wrong direction.

I hope a new one will be started after 1.4.

Personally, I think they plan to... which is part of why I made this big post of "obviosity".

The quickest way to get Paradox to NOT do the same thing for a 1.5 "desired" thread is to make them all miserable after the 1.4 variant + patch.

 

[delra]

I don't think it matters how 1.4 is received here. Devs don't read this forum any more.

 

[jju_57]

I still think they read it. Maybe not as often but I still see posts from them.

 

[Red Jacket]

I've played close to 300 hours of HOI3 so far. Paradox doesn't owe me anything else for my $50.

They keep giving it anyway.

<3

Nicely put, imo. Reflects my sentiments too, more concisely than I could have.

 

[jaxpac]

I wish they would update on 1.4 so people had an idea of when they could start playing the game again. A timeline would be good even though they of course won't give a date. Also a list of things being fixed would be good so that people know if this patch will make the game playable or if we are still waiting for further patches to address key issues.

 

[VetMax]

I'm not sure what is this thread about? I wanted to make an offencive message but thanks to my signature i did not.

 

[Razor]

I don't think it matters how 1.4 is received here. Devs don't read this forum any more.

I do think they read it but it's been a long period of hollidays and I believe they have become very carefull about commenting the threads...

I know I would be

 

[Bhaal]

I've played close to 300 hours of HOI3 so far. Paradox doesn't owe me anything else for my $50.

They keep giving it anyway.

<3

+1 well said.

 

[unmerged(53605)]

It seems to me that the OP is fairly patronising.

One could fairly put across the following points:

1. Just because a game doesn't work doesn't mean they won't release it.
2. Just because a game does not suffer from, but is totally crippled by, balance issues, doesn't mean they won't release it.
3. Just because some of the basic, essential systems of a game don't function properly doesn't mean they will fix them before taking your money.
4. Just because a patch is underway doesn't mean that they won't spend time on some high-profile eye candy while leaving vast tracts of the broken system unaltered.

I think very few people on the forums think that Paradox hate them.

Most of us simply feel that they sold us something which was broken, and which they have yet to fix. If I went and bought a car which didn't have a functioning engine, and 6 months later, they were talking about redesigning the interior, I would certainly want a refund. But this is the deranged world of computer games, where if I buy something broken, I have little recourse, outside of depending on mechanics who do wonderful work for free, then give it to the original car manufacturer, who call the indispensable repairs, which really should have been made prior to the car's release, "mods".

 

[Colonel Dreux]

I couldn't disagree more with this. Paradox is a business and it's their burden to have to deal with customers. If customers don't like how Paradox is doing things, customers don't like how Paradox is doing things... and that's Paradox's problem.

And seeing that Paradox is a business entity, who cares about their feelings? They've made a game that is arguably not that good and will continue to be criticized for it as long as the game is arguably not that good.

 

[Mendeth]

And seeing that Paradox is a business entity, who cares about their feelings?

Paradox itself may be a company but it still has people working for it. How would you feel if you had worked practically non-stop for 18 months on a single project only to receive constant criticism for it, no matter what you tried to do improve that project after it's release. I agree that the game in version 1.0 was not particularly great, despite having some very impressive aspects. Version 1.3 however is much improved, as I am certain 1.4 will be. It seems to me that some people here just enjoy creating arrogant and incendiary posts and won't be happy until every single change they demand is implemented, no matter how time-consuming or ridiculous those changes may be.

 

[unmerged(61401)]

For what it matters, I'm interested in the 1.4 version of this tech demo.

 

[numdydar]

Econ 101

Lets break down some numbers. I purchased the game for $50 as a pre-order. I have easily clocked over 200 hours with the game, both single and mullti player from 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3. I will easily put in another 100 or so hours when 1.4 comes out. So $50/300 hours =$0.17/per hour. Also the more I play the lower this number will go. So as far as I am concerned this is a good game as is even with all it's faults and issues.

If you only played 10 hours because you think is it a horrible game, then your cost is $5/hour of play. If you stop playing entirely then you need to decide if the $5/hr you have put into the game would have been better spent somewhere else.

I am really sorry that you feel so ripped off. I felt the same way when I bought HoI1 and 2. This is the only HoI version that I really think is worth the money I have spent. At least with HoI2, I was able to get a package with all the expansions really cheap. Even then I have played less than 10 hours as it is just something I do not like.

I also bought TW Empire, played it a couple of times and have not played it since. Do I feel ripped off? No. As consumers, to really decide if a game will work for us, we have to buy it. Demos help, but still cannot give us the complete picture. You had certain expectations when you purchased the game that were not met and even with the work that Paradox is putting into the product you do not feel that it will ever be the way you want it. The same way I felt about HoI 1 and 2.

The other sad thing is that for us that like these types of games, we have to accept that they will are unlikely to ever have the economic resources to produce a Dragons Age or TW series. So, if you are that upset that you will never buy a Paradox game again and you like these types of games, you are hurting yourself more than anyone else.

If you want to help fix the game to be more like what you think you purchased, then send in detailed explainations of what you think are wrong to the Bug section or as a PM to a Dev. This would be a help for the expansion or future patches for HoI3 and help out the larger community. If that is something you feel you should not have to do or do not have the time, then all I can say is that I suggest you try a different hobby as computer games all tend to need patches and tweaking. The decision you have to make is, when playing a compuer game of any kind, are you willing to work around the quirks and issues to enjoy the game or not?

 

[hmudd67]

I've played close to 300 hours of HOI3 so far. Paradox doesn't owe me anything else for my $50.

They keep giving it anyway.

<3

Actually they do. A game that works as promised when you paid for it not 2-3 years and several patches and expansions later. How is it giving it away when you have to wait an undetermined amount of time and have to buy expansions in order for you to have the game you should have had when you initially paid for it???????

 

[themousemaster]

I couldn't disagree more with this. Paradox is a business and it's their burden to have to deal with customers. If customers don't like how Paradox is doing things, customers don't like how Paradox is doing things... and that's Paradox's problem.

And seeing that Paradox is a business entity, who cares about their feelings? They've made a game that is arguably not that good and will continue to be criticized for it as long as the game is arguably not that good.

This is pretty much what I'm trying to point out.

A) Yes, Paradox is a company. However, said company is not run by Big Blue. The more the devs get treated like garbage, the less inclined they are to continue the free patching of their product.



B) You seem to misinterpret my post as "you aren't allowed to complain". That is most certainly not true. what my post is designed to bring light to are the situations of people who are going beyond simply pointing out their opinions on game issues, and start making comments about dev caring, capability, choice of priorities, or the ever popular "I speak for the majority when I say...".

Kallocian's thread is a good place to see both ends.

For example, post #20 (Nemsys) is a good way to give feedback while indicating that the game state is still one that he is not happy with, and indicates exactly what his vote for "to be changed" entails. It's obvious he is complaining about the game (the line "as some issues really bothered me too much and in general I prefer to wait until the game is more "polished" before launching on any extensive grand campaign" clearly indicates he won't even play a full-trhough campaign yet), but if I was a dev, no part of his post would... say, "lower my morale rating".

In fact, most of that thread is a nice example of how TO do this.

But then...

Post 407 (Nigo), is NOT a way to talk to... well, anyone, really. There's a way to indicate you don't like something and/or how you'd like it changed, and then there's a way to make yourself sound like the superior moral candidate to both the devs and anyone who disagrees with you. Thankfully, such a post happens WAY down the thread, so it's impact to the overall... shall we say, "decency and usefulness" of the thread is minimal.