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lwarmonger

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I know that this isn't typically the way that Paradox does things (at least not on a very large scale), but I've been thinking. A lot of Paradox (read almost all of Paradox) games come out in what is essentially a beta state. It takes several patches until they really even get playable, and generally the fielding of one expansion or mega-mod before they get replayable for a very long time (TRP for HOI 2, DV for Crusader Kings, Revolutions+VIP for Victoria, ect). In the meantime you have a huge number of idle gamers who come, get very frustrated with what appears to them is an unfinished product (and in all fairness, is an unfinished product), and then leave vowing never to play Paradox games again. So why not have a public beta for pre-order customers? Stardock does this quite well and often very far in advance and means that a lot of your bigger problems are ironed out by the hardcore gamers who will love paradox games regardless of initial faults, which means that they aren't alienating those casual gamers who would actually like the game after a few patches, but aren't willing to stick around because the game that they get just out of the box isn't playable by most modern gaming standards. That would make Paradox money (by alienating fewer of its non-core purchasers) and improve reception by a lot of the hardcore gaming community that pre-orders by giving them some ownership in the design process.

Anyways, just throwing that out there. I don't expect paradox to do anything of this nature for HOI 3, but in the future this may be something to consider implementing for the above reasons.
 

Bullfrog

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sign me up!
 

chridder

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sign me up!

no time for beta testing... but especially since my time is little, I would prefer a good beta test phase (and there are so many player who would be happy as a beta tester) so that the product released finaly is so stable that me, a "Just a few hours at the weekend" player will not have to fight against all the starting issues, most software (not only Paradox games) have when released the first time...
 

WarDog

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That's a great idea!

I will most likely preorder the collectors edition so....

Sign me up. :)
 

Alexander Seil

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First of all, won't happen. Second, no, you don't need mods to play Paradox games, contrary to what the designers of those mods will have you believe (especially as the games themselves reach maturity much faster than the mods). Third, there is already a public beta test program. It starts when the game is released.
 

unmerged(90249)

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First of all, won't happen. Second, no, you don't need mods to play Paradox games, contrary to what the designers of those mods will have you believe (especially as the games themselves reach maturity much faster than the mods). Third, there is already a public beta test program. It starts when the game is released.

A public demo is the door open for for abuse. I will not enter in the details, for the demo for DD was equivalent to distributing the game for free.

I can not explain why, it would be backstabbing p'dox; but anyway the community of fan/mods (I mean people such as Blue Emu) is big enought to have beta testers who know what they talking about without abusing the system.
 

Markusw7

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Public "beta" is likely to appear in the same way as EU3 and CK when there is to be no more expansions and they want more people to test the in between patches that wouldn't normally be released to the public. Public beta before release it extremely unrealistic especially given the way paradox games work(no registration code needed to play).
 

TheLand

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no, you don't need mods to play Paradox games, contrary to what the designers of those mods will have you believe.

As one of those modders (though, admittedly, nowhere near as committed as many!) -

HOI2, Vicky, EU3, Crusader Kings, and Rome are all playable games with no mods whatsoever.

The mods add detail, challenge, and generally an enriched experience for players who want to stick with the games. Personally I found EU3 a much better game after I added Magna Mundi. But I prefer HOI2:DD vanilla to any of the mods I have tried for it.
 

e-stab

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So why not have a public beta for pre-order customers? Stardock does this quite well and often very far in advance and means that a lot of your bigger problems are ironed out by the hardcore gamers who will love paradox games regardless of initial faults, which means that they aren't alienating those casual gamers who would actually like the game after a few patches, but aren't willing to stick around because the game that they get just out of the box isn't playable by most modern gaming standards. That would make Paradox money (by alienating fewer of its non-core purchasers) and improve reception by a lot of the hardcore gaming community that pre-orders by giving them some ownership in the design process.
Stardock seems to make good experiences with this model indeed and I like it. However, they use their SDC/Impulse software for distribution and as a means of copy protection, something which Paradox lacks. (The GamersGate Downloader isn't comparable.)
 

WarDog

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Public beta before release it extremely unrealistic especially given the way paradox games work(no registration code needed to play).


The OP wrote:

So why not have a public beta for pre-order customers?


He propose that costumers that already have payed for the game can be a part of the beta testing. It's not a free download for all...
Paradox has chosen to encourage paying for the games by requiring registering on this great forum to get support.


Paradox has some fantastic beta testers. But still I have a feeling that almost every release have a few bugs. As soon as the normal gamers get their game, the bug reports starts to get in.
Disclaimer: I do not know that much about the latest releases since Paradox removed the bug report forum.

Why not have more paying gamers trying out the different scenarios as different nations before the release to get rid of those bugs?
 

daemonofdecay

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He propose that costumers that already have payed for the game can be a part of the beta testing. It's not a free download for all...
Paradox has chosen to encourage paying for the games by requiring registering on this great forum to get support.


Paradox has some fantastic beta testers. But still I have a feeling that almost every release have a few bugs. As soon as the normal gamers get their game, the bug reports starts to get in.
Disclaimer: I do not know that much about the latest releases since Paradox removed the bug report forum.

Why not have more paying gamers trying out the different scenarios as different nations before the release to get rid of those bugs?

Not a bad idea. Plus, there are plenty of people who would pre-order the collectors edition to get to play HOI3 early, even a buggy beta! :D
 

Alexander Seil

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Explain to me, how is paying to participate in a public beta-test functionally different from, oh, just buying a Paradox game on release? :p
 

Alexander Seil

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As one of those modders (though, admittedly, nowhere near as committed as many!) -

HOI2, Vicky, EU3, Crusader Kings, and Rome are all playable games with no mods whatsoever.

The mods add detail, challenge, and generally an enriched experience for players who want to stick with the games. Personally I found EU3 a much better game after I added Magna Mundi. But I prefer HOI2:DD vanilla to any of the mods I have tried for it.

I think the EU3 system actually considerably diminishes the value of "total" mods like Magna Mundi - if I can start only in 1399, the game just loses its appeal (I mean, one of the major attractions of EU3 is - "Hey, I've read about this war...let's re-fight it!"). Sure, it's semi-random and bases on a historical database that has a lot of gaps, but it's still detailed enough to suspend my disbelief. Not to mention that 1399 is a recipe for not seeing a lot of historical developments because Europe is so fractured.
 

WarDog

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Explain to me, how is paying to participate in a public beta-test functionally different from, oh, just buying a Paradox game on release? :p


Not that much for the player. But Paradox could possibly get rid of the bugs that appear playing a normal game v1.0 as Germany in a GC36? ;)
 

daemonofdecay

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I think the EU3 system actually considerably diminishes the value of "total" mods like Magna Mundi - if I can start only in 1399, the game just loses its appeal (I mean, one of the major attractions of EU3 is - "Hey, I've read about this war...let's re-fight it!"). Sure, it's semi-random and bases on a historical database that has a lot of gaps, but it's still detailed enough to suspend my disbelief. Not to mention that 1399 is a recipe for not seeing a lot of historical developments because Europe is so fractured.

MM doesn't force you to play from 1399.
 

Alex_brunius

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Explain to me, how is paying to participate in a public beta-test functionally different from, oh, just buying a Paradox game on release?
1. We get to participate even more, they show us they WANT our feedback and reward our support if we pay more and preorder collectors edition (granted there is one).

2. The average off the shelf buyer as explained gets a much better experience (even if its a few months later) as said earlier in the thread.

3. Paradox raise their standard and aknowledge that their product isn't finished until most of the bugs are fixed. This would be a great way to extend their current filosophy of working closer to their fans, posting early concepts and sneak peaks on these forums. It would also probably free up more resources to focus on other upcomming projects once the game is done since fewer patches are needed.