Pub Poll: Quests & Awards (+)

[unmerged(8632)]

OK it goes like this.

Negotiations are a way to shape an Agreement, be it a momentary Transaction (you give me X I give you Y) or a long-standing Union (we keep peace until MM).

Both Transactions and Unions start with one party making an Offer. Shall the Offer be addressed to a particular Ruler, it is a Proposal. Shall the offer be addressed to "whoever is brave", it is a Quest. Once the Quest is Accepted by a Ruler, it becomes either a Transaction or Agreement.

Now, skipping the unnecessary discussion of the multitude of details , your brainstorm help on the following issues would be appreciated:

What are the subjects of quest? Examples? At the moment we can play with

a) money
b) prestige
c) imprisoned characters (ransom ideas)
d) engagement/marriage to a certain (prized?) party
e) what else?

and whether such Quest should be constructed like a Proposal (i.e. 'I will marry my daughter to the one who gives my dynasty 1000 of Prestige' -> your Ruler accepts this and it becomes binding for him to deliver by certain point) or Award (i.e. you are able to Accept only when you can complete the terms immediately).

Thoughts? Ideas?

 

[Norgesvenn]

From the top of my head, I think the 'Proposal' looks the most challenging, and least exploitative (for a human player). And I really like the idea of needing to achieve certain levels of prestige in order to marry into a royal house.


Will these quests or awards be used when Popes are elected? Or for cardinal appointments? I would certainly like to see the ecclestial court play the different royal courts up against one another for cardinal appointments and things like that...

 

[Murmurandus]

I agree with Norgesvenn about the Proposal.

And as for the subject of quests:

- territory
- build/conquer specific building
- capture/acquire specific objects (Holy Grail for example)
- capture/acquire specific resources (mine/wood/water...)
- assassinations (sp.?)
- espionage
- ...

These are just mere proposals, I have no idea what's possible gameplay wise...

 

[Norgesvenn]

Oh, yeah. And retrieve pieces from the True Cross etc. Finding various relics could be a good Quest.

 

[kurtbrian]

maybe also votes for elections (pope, HRE)

If you do this for me, I will vote for your candidate

 

[unmerged(5822)]

It would be really fun if the pope also handed out quests... I imagine they would generally be good for prestige and piety, but perhaps one might get the pope's support for a claim or get a rival banished.

 

[unmerged(6160)]

I will give my daughter Helena to any man whose has 500 piety and prestige, all other Kings must swear to defend her if she is ever taken away

But Really, could have happened in CK

The First King to win the Holy City, I will give 2500 gold, my daughter and the title Defender of the Faith!

 

[Eochaid]

Or maybe for a Lord living next people with another religion: "If you crusade against my ever annoying Pagan/Heretic neighbours, convert them and manage to stop them from looting my estates, I will grant you a title and give you my daughter."

In a realm which has been struck be civil war or a general unrest for a long time: "Bring back peace, get elected King/Emperor or whatever and I'll support you and give you my daugter."

A quest that could be started bt the AI controled merchant republics: "I will give you money/ferry your troops to the Holy Land if you agree to take that city/help us against the Saracens..."

For a King that has no male heir: "I will make my heir the Lord of my realm that earns the most piety and prestige in the next ten years, starting now."

Just a few ideas I had...

EDIT: Nikolaï II had the idea #4 on another thread, but I saw it after writing this post. Sorry

 

[Nikolai II]

Originally posted by Norgesvenn
Oh, yeah. And retrieve pieces from the True Cross etc. Finding various relics could be a good Quest.

Although one I don't like much, since it would be so easy.

Historically all you had to do to find a piece of the true cross/lance that killed Jesus or some saints third hand was to dream a dream and dig a while (preferably with impartial witnessess to the digging) or just get out with some money (letting someone else do the actual forgery)

Also it is more a clergy/convent type of quest, not a martial lord style of quest.

Nothing wrong with the general premise, that quests are simply proposals that are open for all, like the example of ransoming in the other thread.

If I have a lord imprisoned I'll propose to his liege that he ransom him. When he fails, but the ransomee fails to swear fealty to me instead over this grave failure from his liege, I'd simply 'quest' him out, offering him to anyone willing to pay my 'fee' (ransom).

The one who bought him might then either free him freely for piety and/or prestige, or he might try to strike a better deal with the noble or his liege.

 

[Norgesvenn]

Relics can of course be used to the advantage of a martial ruler, can't they? Just like the case of sainthood.

 

[unmerged(8303)]

I'm not worried about exploitation. Any game played by a human can be exploited.

It is a matter of knowing the rules of the game well enough to get between them. More focus should be on a solid product, which it looks like CK is.

The most glorious offer one can make is a transfer of accumulated titles in exchange for some kind of service. like - kill the pagan lithunians and i'll give you my title, 'duke of vilnius' or whatever.

 

[Damocles]

At least from a historical point of view, one of the most common types of quests would be one ruler beseeching another to fight one of his enemies for him. I.E, inviting the Normans into Southern Italy, or the Crusades in a nutshell.

The HRE could send out a request for some able lord (of a smaller house who may not have much opportunity for expanding his piety and prestige due to lack of claims) to fight his enemies who the HRE has a claim against in return for a reward he wouldn't normally be able to get.

 

[Nikolai II]

Originally posted by Damocles
At least from a historical point of view, one of the most common types of quests would be one ruler beseeching another to fight one of his enemies for him. I.E, inviting the Normans into Southern Italy, or the Crusades in a nutshell.

The HRE could send out a request for some able lord (of a smaller house who may not have much opportunity for expanding his piety and prestige due to lack of claims) to fight his enemies who the HRE has a claim against in return for a reward he wouldn't normally be able to get.

This one I like more.

'Anyone willing to kick my enemies behinds?'

Offers would then be increasing as the offerers desperation rises, beginning at 'my thanks' over 'money', 'lands', 'my daughter' to 'and half the kingdom'

 

[Jos Theelen]

Could an agreement also mean the permission to do things, like:
marching troops over the others territory
marry the daughter of a third party
go with a crusade
do another proposal to a third party
....

And could an agreement also mean that something is forbidden, like:
going with a crusade
have a relation with some third party
doing proposals to a third party
interfering in some conflict
....

 

[unmerged(485)]

Originally posted by kurtbrian
maybe also votes for elections (pope, HRE)

If you do this for me, I will vote for your candidate

Along this same line the Pope could grant a red hat to one of your bishops for you recovering a province from a papal enemy for him (that is if cardinals are made in CK and don't just appear out of thin air).

 

[unmerged(2695)]

Re: Quests

The Holy Grail come simmediately to mind once the word Quest is mentioned.

Relics played a big role in the period. It should be possible to seek, buy, sell or swap relics as a means to enhance prestige.
Discovering saints' bones and building churches for them was a routine activity.

Of course, marrying into a dynasty of very high status was a source of prestige. (Marrying a princess from a distant country was also a way of keeping the in-laws out of politics).

But getting hold of strange animals or art objects was a way of increasing prestige. The elephant the Caliph sent to Charlemagne comes to mind.

But also: Mediating in disputes - making peace - was an activity that gave prestige.
Being a generous host, ditto.

I think it vitally important that CK should contain these aspects of the MA so as to not degenrate into some kind of Conanesque megaviolent fantasy. (In so far as that can be reconciled with the urgent need to sell the game).

 

[Idiotboy]

I would say having a great amount of cash would qualify as well. Many a house was quite into the debit and if a potential marriage or somethink brought a great deal of new funds to the house pride could be swallowed. Although it doesn´t make for a very good quest thing. Perhaps it should be holy grail stuff only. On the other hand I don´t see a marriage being based on those stuff. Perhaps quests could give you new claims or such as well.

 

[Keynes]

I dont care much for the word "quest" - it gives kind of an RPG-ish feel to the game. Perhaps something like "challenge" although the meaning isnt quite right.

 

[unmerged(5664)]

Originally posted by Keynes
I dont care much for the word "quest" - it gives kind of an RPG-ish feel to the game. Perhaps something like "challenge" although the meaning isnt quite right.

That's been my concern as well. The idea of a "Quest" to find the Holy Grail doesn't seem right.

But once we start talking about a "Quest" to fight my enemies, that seems much better

 

[kurtbrian]

the quest for the holy grail.....

camelot!

camelot!

its only a model....