PU with France : How to maximize chance of inheritance or integration

[sinisalo]

I am playing ironman Spain. It is around 1670 and I am in a PU with France. Austria objected and we fought a succession war with them and their minions which we won. I chose Humiliate and peaced out. I didn't see any peace option relating to the succession war. In all the EU IV games I've played this is only my second PU, the other being Bavaria during a Tuscany>Italy save. So I want to know what I can do to maximize my chance of integrating France.

Could France be too big to absorb in to the Glorious Spanish Co-Prosperity Sphere?

I am having the 'Failed to save game for unknown reason' issue with the latest checksum, but I am hoping it gets fixed and I can continue with the save.

What, if anything, can I do to integrate France? Might it happen automatically now that the succession war is won? Could France now bear an heir and it's all academic?

 

[Nikolaz72]

Well, you can only integrate 50 years after this war. Which means you can only even start in 1720.

If you integrate it through normal means chances are you wont have the territory for long before gameend, I say just leave them in a union under you. French troops are stronger that way and it means less micromanagement =D.

 

[sinisalo]

Yes, definitely an option.

If they were integrated, what are the costs in MPs? And I would have issues with unrest and nationalism? Or is it a peaceful integration?

 

[nicechinos]

Yes, definitely an option.

If they were integrated, what are the costs in MPs? And I would have issues with unrest and nationalism? Or is it a peaceful integration?

I'm not sure you will be able to integrate them before the game end.

 

[sinisalo]

If I keep the personal union it is essentially like France is my vassal, but with no monetary benefits?

Under what circumstances could I lose the PU?

 

[Turk_SeSo]

If I keep the personal union it is essentially like France is my vassal, but with no monetary benefits?

Under what circumstances could I lose the PU?

If you have negative Prestige and your king dies, you will loose the PU. (if this system did not change, without me noticing)

 

[nicechinos]

If I keep the personal union it is essentially like France is my vassal, but with no monetary benefits?

Under what circumstances could I lose the PU?

That's correct.

France will likely be hostile to you due to "relative power" to the liege and "bad monarch" (less than 4 or may be 3 admin skill). It will get a support of independence and will declare independence war on you. If your monarch dies with negative prestige PU is over.

 

[ahyangyi]

Could France be too big to absorb in to the Glorious Spanish Co-Prosperity Sphere?

It's annoying to see a reference to a racist propaganda....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_East_Asia_Co-Prosperity_Sphere

 

[sinisalo]

That's correct.

France will likely be hostile to you due to "relative power" to the liege and "bad monarch" (less than 4 or may be 3 admin skill). It will get a support of independence and will declare independence war on you. If your monarch dies with negative prestige PU is over.

So if that's the case, I would have been better off with the status quo of +200 relations and long time ally. I really don't need France rebelling. This seems like it might get interesting.

 

[nicechinos]

So if that's the case, I would have been better off with the status quo of +200 relations and long time ally. I really don't need France rebelling. This seems like it might get interesting.

I had a Muscovy run with PUs over Austria (big and bad) and France. I had twice the army of Austria and 1.5x of France. Still France was hostile all the time and Austria had vassal attitude only during wars. I was in constant war (just to max out relationships) with everyone just to keep those two occupied.
In 1.8. PUs are even less useful because integration would take tens (or even hundreds) of years and transfer of sieges makes a close ally as good as PU. Having a bad monarch is pain. Lesser partner gets events (relationship hits) almost every month.

 

[Gaamel]

Don't even think of integrating France, it would cost you thousands of diplo points over a very long time...On the other hand, if you manage to keep the PU you now have a very powerful attack dog, no need to micro the troops anymore.

In my last Prussia game I managed to have Hohenzollerns on the thrones of both France and Russia, leading to two unexpected PUs in the early 18th Century. France+Prussia+Russia is totally unstoppable. I had blobbed inside the HRE before, annexing everyone except in Northern Italy. Be careful to look strong or France will try to break the union.

 

[sinisalo]

I think that's the only option isn't it? So as my PU vassal, France will no longer start their own wars or seek conquest? Will they continue to colonize? We've made a fine alliance thus far, along with Portugal, but I've been mainly colonial after eradicating Aragon. This PU changes things a bit.

 

[nicechinos]

I think that's the only option isn't it? So as my PU vassal, France will no longer start their own wars or seek conquest? Will they continue to colonize? We've made a fine alliance thus far, along with Portugal, but I've been mainly colonial after eradicating Aragon. This PU changes things a bit.

What are current relationship modifiers? Do you have sufficient FL to scare France?
They will not declare wars or make diplomacy actions except asking for support independence but otherwise it would business as usual for them.

 

[sinisalo]

Yes, Spain is a match for France in manpower, forcelimits and tech. And our navy is vastly superior. We currently have a 6/4/6 King, but he is in his twilight and the heir is 2/2/2.

 

[nicechinos]

Yes, Spain is a match for France in manpower, forcelimits and tech. And our navy is vastly superior. We currently have a 6/4/6 King, but he is in his twilight and the heir is 2/2/2.

So enjoy it while it lasts then

 

[sinisalo]

When the event fired I thought this is probably good. But the more I learn, the more I believe it will be a curse. I know that France could have turned against me at any time, but for 200 years they have been a fine ally, and we have supported one another without fail. It seems like now they are much more likely to turn on me. But these are the sorts of unexpected eventualities that make EU IV interesting and keep the player on his toes so to speak.

 

[nicechinos]

When the event fired I thought this is probably good. But the more I learn, the more I believe it will be a curse. I know that France could have turned against me at any time, but for 200 years they have been a fine ally, and we have supported one another without fail. It seems like now they are much more likely to turn on me. But these are the sorts of unexpected eventualities that make EU IV interesting and keep the player on his toes so to speak.

I was initially excited too. France got under PU one and a half year later after contesting PU with Austria. I realised that the whole thing is not sustainable after I kept the relationship with them for 50 years to integrate (these were bloody busy years!). It would have taken tens of years in 1.7 to integrate Austria when 15 diplo point a month was default progress.

 

[sinisalo]

Thanks for that. France is the only nation at this point that could possibly give me trouble aside from Ottomans. Spain and France's land force limits are equal, though my troops are spread all over the globe. I have large standing armies in southern Africa and in Indonesia. I will just do all I can to maintain relations and hope for the best.