PSA Hordes 1.23

[BarrosRodrigues]

From 1.22 to 1.23 the effects of low horde unity were halved so, now, at 0 horde unity the player/AI will have +2 unrest (down from +4) and -5% discipline (down from -10%) .
This is a huge gameplay change that AFAIK (...) was left out of the patch notes (maybe @DDRJake can shed some light on it). IMO Hordes are now less unforgiving and can even be somewhat more appealing for less expansionist players.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Ever since the -unity from dev was capped I felt they're relatively forgiving. I think this is more so that subject/AI hordes don't torpedo into a hellfire of pretender/tribe rebel cycles when hit by the slightest breeze, but maybe they had something else in mind.

New players have more issues with the finances typically, at least when I've watched them try to play hordes that's where they tank.

 

[bly08]

Yea this seems more like an AI buff than for the player. Hopefully horde vassals will be better now.

 

[Archemide]

Ever since the -unity from dev was capped I felt they're relatively forgiving. I think this is more so that subject/AI hordes don't torpedo into a hellfire of pretender/tribe rebel cycles when hit by the slightest breeze, but maybe they had something else in mind.

New players have more issues with the finances typically, at least when I've watched them try to play hordes that's where they tank.

As a bad horde player (specifically Great Horde) who has issues with finances, can you give me any advice?

 

[braunschweig1]

As a bad horde player (specifically Great Horde) who has issues with finances, can you give me any advice?

Don't build buildings early and blob like crazy. Target the weakest most valuable country you can, you should be at war most of the time so you can keep your treasury rolling. Get the gold mine in Kazan as a top priority, then when you get it move your capital there and develop it so you get crazy gold income. You can reduce inflation with ADM since you should be rolling in it with all the razing. If you have the new DLC you can also burn dev for cash. Use corruption instead of loans if you can.

 

[elitesix]

I think as a horde you need to blob and get gold and war reparations, but be sure not to raze the really well developed provinces you conquer as they will make a lot of money for you in states. Try to blob toward nearby good trade nodes - for golden horde persia trade node is a good one. I think the number 1 problem for super-poor hordes is they blob but raze all provinces, instead of keeping the well developed provinces which they make into states.

I think mid and late game as a horde you need to spend money on building lots of buildings in a trade node where you collect the most, as it will help prop your income. In general though, you're going to be poorer than a non-horde. Your blobbed size should make up for it though.

 

[Octavius Antony]

The advice that has been overlooked so far is the power of Debasing. What most of the horde players will tell you is to burn everything, but only after you have debased a couple of times. You should be rooting out corruption full steam at all times, and debasing whenever money is needed. Raze basically everything, barring gold mines, and raise autonomy as much as possible. You'll make more money than you spend, and will maintain a positive loop cycle through the early game. By the time Absolutism hits, you should have already conquered a good trade node and enough lands to make it worthwhile to pretend to have a real economy.

 

[ChloePech]

As a bad horde player (specifically Great Horde) who has issues with finances, can you give me any advice?

Spam that debase currency. Reduces unrest, and gives more gold than you loose, and you have plenty of monarch points from razing. Try and stop around 50 if you can.

 

[Incompetent]

You're still in danger of Civil War if your horde unity is tanked, which is not much fun for a beginner. But I suppose it can only happen once and it has a relatively easy way out (let a pretender win). Once you've done the civil war, it sounds like being at 0 unity for a while due to lack of expansion opportunities is not that traumatic any more.

Vassals can't get Civil War, so AI vassal hordes are indeed much safer than they used to be. Do AI hordes take Humanism? I feel like it's a good choice for hordes generally, but especially for the AI given its rebel problems.

IMO Hordes are now less unforgiving and can even be somewhat more appealing for less expansionist players.

What would be the appeal of hordes for less expansionist players? Do you mean a 'tall horde' style where you raze land, give much of it back (or give to subjects) so it can be re-razed later, and use the MP for developing the good provinces? I like the idea, but I think an inexperienced player would still struggle with the AE and economy aspects.

 

[ElGranCapitan]

As a bad horde player (specifically Great Horde) who has issues with finances, can you give me any advice?

Trade companies are by far the most important goal, regardless where you start
If you play an eastern horde getting a european capital is important as well, take Astrakhan, it's accessible and easier to take than Muscovy (and significantly easier than Constantinopel)

Bordergore as crazy, snake your way through horde land, that way you should reach india in 50 years. In my Mongolia run I had already conquered Astrakhan and launched my first conquest of Delhi in 1480

Tengri is the best religion for hordes, you can run only cav as tengri except for siege stacks and your troop costs are reduced as well..Islam has less unity problems due to better missionaries but is overall weaker for hordes (though Shia might work quite well)

Debasing is fine, but I wouldn't go crazy with it. Better to focus on getting tc land asap, you'll be rich with india (even northern india only). Then proceed with the rest of Asia, especially China.

In general: Trade companies > gold mines > debasing > loans

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yes, early on you have just your home state cores you develop for institutions. Gold is a high initial priority if remotely near, then trade companies ASAP (workshop/manufactory and rake cash).

It all comes down to losing as little per war as possible while going as fast as possible to. More so than other nations horde are straight up micro tests.