#prussianproblems

[SacremPyrobolum]

when u wanna sphere Holstein but Denmark netflix n chill wit the Uk

But seriously...

Playing the HPM mod. Despite have Grosduetchland (Germany + German Austria and Bohemia) nearly all of the Balkans as puppets, Egypt as well as all of Central Africa stretching from the Atlantic to the Red Sea, Indonesia, three Chinese treaty ports and all of Korea I can still not seem to surpass Perfidious Albion (the uk) in term of industrial score. I have free markets and trade and no tariffs and all industry techs. What gives? Small Germany with no colonies surpasses me playing UK.

Why am I so bad at this game ;_;

 

[am300307]

NF craftsmen like crazy

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

I was NF'ing clerks...

 

[queermobile]

I was NF'ing clerks...

That's definitely your problem. Craftsmen are the actual factory workers, clerks are their managers.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

How do i know when I have enough in a certain area?

 

[queermobile]

How do i know when I have enough in a certain area?

I think the provincial cap on craftsmen is around 25-30% if that's what you're asking. You're going to have your NF on it for a long time.

 

[Shadowcat69]

when u wanna sphere Holstein but Denmark netflix n chill wit the Uk

Had a game where the UK just wouldn't let go of Hannover and Austria didn't forget to ban my embassies in Saxony. Infuriating is too weak of a word.

 

[Kovax]

Currently playing Prussia/NGF where France and Austria are double-teaming me constantly with influence in Bavaria, Baden, and Wurtemburg. I can outmatch either without too much trouble, but the two of them are inexorable, and won't ban or discredit each other. If I ban one, the other continues ahead, and if I manage to ban both, they immediately begin pumping influence into one of the other two states. This has been going on for about 6 years now, and I'm gradually slipping behind, getting driven out of all three. I'd "simply" attack France or Austria to end the problem, but they're allied, and both allied to Russia, and I can't take on all three at once. I understand your point perfectly about "Infuriating" not covering it.

 

[WankoStankins]

Make sure you have clergy at at least 2%, (4% if you start as a low literacy country), and have 1% baueaeuaueuaecrats (or however much is needed to get 100% admin efficiency in the budget screen, since that speeds up pop promotion significantly). You said you're bad, so maybe you don't know that.

 

[thedarkendstar]

Okay here's what you eventually the British industry score growth will slow they dont have many people on the home islands meanwhile yours should grow exponentially especially if you save the Ruhr boom until after your formed Greater Germany.

I find if your form just Regular Germany you wont be powerful enough and France will declare war any chance they get to get Alsace lorraine back to counter this keep taking French land eventually they wont have enough people to build an army to fight you Fighting Russia in the east should be simple keep maybe 120k troops there just kill Russian armies when they go into your land use the rest of your army to defeat France who has higher tech.Make sure you know which general will be leading a battle especially if its a large battle those bonuses are essential.

As for sphereing Saxony influence until Austria discredits you keep going til they are back at 25 influence then switch to Bavaria it will stop them from influencing Saxony keep switching till your at 100 influence and friendly in Saxony then if you have been research the techs your influence will slowly erode theres once they are at zero remove they will never catch up to you.

 

[Kovax]

Keep in mind that there are several tech advances that increase bureaucratic efficiency, so you don't want to pay for more bureaucrats than to get to about 90% or so, and the tech increases will cover the difference. In most cases, the bureaucracy will gradually expand more than needed on its own, without spending a NFP on it. The NFP is just to get it into the 80+ ballpark as quickly as possible, then you can back off.

Clergy is the second priority, preferably getting at least 2% in every region. More won't improve your Research speed directly, but will help raise Literacy faster, which WILL speed up Research in the longer term. Over about 3-4% clergy starts to get less efficient, so I shoot for around a 2.5-3% optimum number.

After that, either Soldiers or Craftsmen are next, depending on what your priorities are.

In my current game, Austria FINALLY quit the alliance against me after 21 years, braking ties with France and Russia to ally with Netherlands and Ottomans. France immediately started throwing Discredits at them, and I was able to sphere and ally with Bavaria, Baden, and Wurtemburg in the ensuing confusion. That also gave me a chance to pull Sardinia-Piedmont out of France's sphere, and ally with them as well, even though they're not (yet) in my sphere. With one member out of the coalition, I figured that I could fight a 2 front war (not 3), and began moving troops toward the French and Russian borders, when a Border Incident occurred. Now I'm moving those troops to the Austrian border, to take advantage of a freebie regional wargoal. The added bonus is that the war and following truce will mean several more years before Austria can contest those 3 critical spherelings required to form Germany, while I concentrate on preparations to take Alsace-Lorraine from France (despite Russia and now Spain) to finish the task.

I've never seen an alliance hold up that solidly under the early conditions, nor absolutely refuse to Discredit each other or otherwise contest mutual objective smaller countries.

 

[thedarkendstar]

Keep in mind that there are several tech advances that increase bureaucratic efficiency, so you don't want to pay for more bureaucrats than to get to about 90% or so, and the tech increases will cover the difference. In most cases, the bureaucracy will gradually expand more than needed on its own, without spending a NFP on it. The NFP is just to get it into the 80+ ballpark as quickly as possible, then you can back off.

Clergy is the second priority, preferably getting at least 2% in every region. More won't improve your Research speed directly, but will help raise Literacy faster, which WILL speed up Research in the longer term. Over about 3-4% clergy starts to get less efficient, so I shoot for around a 2.5-3% optimum number.

After that, either Soldiers or Craftsmen are next, depending on what your priorities are.

In my current game, Austria FINALLY quit the alliance against me after 21 years, braking ties with France and Russia to ally with Netherlands and Ottomans. France immediately started throwing Discredits at them, and I was able to sphere and ally with Bavaria, Baden, and Wurtemburg in the ensuing confusion. That also gave me a chance to pull Sardinia-Piedmont out of France's sphere, and ally with them as well, even though they're not (yet) in my sphere. With one member out of the coalition, I figured that I could fight a 2 front war (not 3), and began moving troops toward the French and Russian borders, when a Border Incident occurred. Now I'm moving those troops to the Austrian border, to take advantage of a freebie regional wargoal. The added bonus is that the war and following truce will mean several more years before Austria can contest those 3 critical spherelings required to form Germany, while I concentrate on preparations to take Alsace-Lorraine from France (despite Russia and now Spain) to finish the task.

I've never seen an alliance hold up that solidly under the early conditions, nor absolutely refuse to Discredit each other or otherwise contest mutual objective smaller countries.

You should be able to beat that alliance even as the NGF my suggestion is to leave maybe 2-3 armies to hold off the Austrians used mobilized armies to fight the Russians and uses the vast majority of your main army to crush France.

 

[Kovax]

Currently fighting the Austrians, who are tough enough without the assistance of France and Russia. I've got two battles going on (going well enough in spite of the insane numerical odds) with my mere 50-100K stacks facing at least 200K+ Austrians in each (one of those stacks has been in combat for weeks, and has slowly been "ground down" a mere 200K), on top of at least 10 other "small" stacks of 20-50K. I managed to knock Netherlands out of the war, and am trying to keep Sardinia-Piedmont in the fight despite several hundred thousand Austrians plus a heap of Italians blanketing the country. My military score is significantly higher, and my Military techs are maxed, but they're fielding twice the manpower. If I had to fend off both Russia and France in the mean time, I'd have a real problem.

Leaving 2-3 stacks to "hold off" Austria doesn't cut it....unless I haven't built nearly enough brigades. What's a "normal" army for NGF at around 1857-8? It seems I've got about 250-260 brigades, mostly arranged into 20+ armies of 10 brigades each (30K men) to avoid attrition penalties.

 

[thedarkendstar]

Currently fighting the Austrians, who are tough enough without the assistance of France and Russia. I've got two battles going on (going well enough in spite of the insane numerical odds) with my mere 50-100K stacks facing at least 200K+ Austrians in each (one of those stacks has been in combat for weeks, and has slowly been "ground down" a mere 200K), on top of at least 10 other "small" stacks of 20-50K. I managed to knock Netherlands out of the war, and am trying to keep Sardinia-Piedmont in the fight despite several hundred thousand Austrians plus a heap of Italians blanketing the country. My military score is significantly higher, and my Military techs are maxed, but they're fielding twice the manpower. If I had to fend off both Russia and France in the mean time, I'd have a real problem.

Leaving 2-3 stacks to "hold off" Austria doesn't cut it....unless I haven't built nearly enough brigades. What's a "normal" army for NGF at around 1857-8? It seems I've got about 250-260 brigades, mostly arranged into 20+ armies of 10 brigades each (30K men) to avoid attrition penalties.

My army is generally 42 stacks 5 inf 5 arty 2 dragoons and 2 engineers you don't need to repel Austria completely the armies there are just meant to slow them down once you Crush France with your full army Bring them all to bare o Austria then once there done the same to Russia.

But that shouldn't be needed occupying much of France and destroying there army should net you enough Warscore to end it. France is the strongest member they have a homogeneous core population with better literacy so better tech they need to die first.

 

[Kovax]

It took about 2 years, but Austria capitulated. In the one massive battle, I had 100K+ troops against 200K Austrians, and Austria (and Ottos) tossed over 600K more men into the meat grinder, while I added about another 150K, which meant that it dragged on close to forever. I had a +3 Defensive general at the start, and was punting posterior, but then he died and the next general in line was a +0, so the kill/casualty ratio dropped to only about 3:2, not 2:1 or better as in most of the other battles. I didn't want to break off, because the Austrian side was low on Organization, and I had hopes of them breaking (with nowhere to retreat to), but it didn't happen. Eventually, I sent troops to bypass the province completely, and managed to besiege Vienna. Eventually, Vienna and about a dozen other provinces capitulated before the 1-1/2 year battle was over, and Austria surrendered while it was still unresolved. Nasty, expensive, and senseless violence. I need to avoid that kind of situation in the future. At least it tied up the better part of a million Austrian troops while I took the provinces.

Pulling Sardinia-Piedmont out of France's sphere and allying them was one of the best moves leading up to the war, since S-P did an admirable job of fending off all of the various Italian states in Austria's sphere, as well as several Austrian stacks of 20-30K each. I had to provide some support by sending two stacks of 30K men to the northern part of the country to deal with some Austrian units, but S-P handled the rest admirably. The Bavarian army, in comparison, crumbled almost without a fight, and I had to drive the Austrians out of there almost by myself to prevent their early surrender. The Ottoman units coming up to support Austria just about melted away on contact, and were not much of a factor in the war.

I guess the next step is to repair the somewhat battered army and try to pry a couple of France's allies and spherelings away over the next year or so, before fighting France over A-L. The high dissent in the newly annexed Bohemian region (gotten without a point of Infamy) means that I can't rely too heavily on units recruited from there for a while, but at least it's a few hundred thousand men that Austria won't have if they try to take it back, and nicely developed and heavily German-populated prime real estate (with a lot of coal). Unfortunately, France just allied with the UK while I was fighting Austria, so taking on France, Russia, and the UK, plus several smaller countries in France's sphere simultaneously, doesn't sound promising. I think I need to promote Soldiers and recruit at least another 100K men or so.

In theory, I have a navy, but I've put almost nothing into it in favor of land combat. After 1860 or 1870, once I research and invent Monitors, that will change, and there will be a crash building program; no point in building a massive fleet of obsolete ships in the mean time.

 

[thedarkendstar]

It took about 2 years, but Austria capitulated. In the one massive battle, I had 100K+ troops against 200K Austrians, and Austria (and Ottos) tossed over 600K more men into the meat grinder, while I added about another 150K, which meant that it dragged on close to forever. I had a +3 Defensive general at the start, and was punting posterior, but then he died and the next general in line was a +0, so the kill/casualty ratio dropped to only about 3:2, not 2:1 or better as in most of the other battles. I didn't want to break off, because the Austrian side was low on Organization, and I had hopes of them breaking (with nowhere to retreat to), but it didn't happen. Eventually, I sent troops to bypass the province completely, and managed to besiege Vienna. Eventually, Vienna and about a dozen other provinces capitulated before the 1-1/2 year battle was over, and Austria surrendered while it was still unresolved. Nasty, expensive, and senseless violence. I need to avoid that kind of situation in the future. At least it tied up the better part of a million Austrian troops while I took the provinces.

Pulling Sardinia-Piedmont out of France's sphere and allying them was one of the best moves leading up to the war, since S-P did an admirable job of fending off all of the various Italian states in Austria's sphere, as well as several Austrian stacks of 20-30K each. I had to provide some support by sending two stacks of 30K men to the northern part of the country to deal with some Austrian units, but S-P handled the rest admirably. The Bavarian army, in comparison, crumbled almost without a fight, and I had to drive the Austrians out of there almost by myself to prevent their early surrender. The Ottoman units coming up to support Austria just about melted away on contact, and were not much of a factor in the war.

I guess the next step is to repair the somewhat battered army and try to pry a couple of France's allies and spherelings away over the next year or so, before fighting France over A-L. The high dissent in the newly annexed Bohemian region (gotten without a point of Infamy) means that I can't rely too heavily on units recruited from there for a while, but at least it's a few hundred thousand men that Austria won't have if they try to take it back, and nicely developed and heavily German-populated prime real estate (with a lot of coal). Unfortunately, France just allied with the UK while I was fighting Austria, so taking on France, Russia, and the UK, plus several smaller countries in France's sphere simultaneously, doesn't sound promising. I think I need to promote Soldiers and recruit at least another 100K men or so.

In theory, I have a navy, but I've put almost nothing into it in favor of land combat. After 1860 or 1870, once I research and invent Monitors, that will change, and there will be a crash building program; no point in building a massive fleet of obsolete ships in the mean time.

What you should have done when your general died is fine the unit in that army where he led and made him retreat a new general would take over then you can let that unit rest and send it back into the fight.

Austria seems abnormally strong in your game usually the Fold when I play Prussia in the 1850s I usually have all the Germans in my sphere and I take Bohemia and Moravia from Austria in a single war.

 

[Kovax]

Austria seems abnormally strong in your game usually the Fold when I play Prussia in the 1850s I usually have all the Germans in my sphere and I take Bohemia and Moravia from Austria in a single war.

Yes, they're definitely stronger than usual. Normally, I see them jump to the top of the Industry ratings for a few years, until the UK and US surpass them, and sit about #4-5 in Military rank. This game, they never went over about #3 in Industry, but were the #2 Military power (behind the UK) for most of the game so far. My own Military rating recently eclipsed them as #2, at least until Russia rose up the chart in that respect, but Russian troops generally aren't up to the Western standards at this point, and should continue to slip behind. I don't think I've ever fought a war that brutal in Vicky2 before; I've played other smaller countries and been clearly outmatched and steamrolled by a major, but to have the vast majority of the Prussian/NGF army radically outnumbered and effectively stalemated by Austria for the better part of 2 years was unexpected. I could see those kinds of numbers coming out of Russia, but not Austria.

Thanks for the tip about breaking off and rejoining combat. I didn't realize you could pull one army out of the ongoing combat without leaving massive holes in your front line, although in retrospect I would assume that by that stage, the entire army of that first (deceased) general would be in need of withdrawing anyway. The second, weaker general could have been pulled back then, and possibly a third general with a higher defensive stat (+1 or +2) would have taken over. A shame, if I had pulled those first armies back, they'd have had 6-12 months to recover, and then rejoin the fight or do something else constructive.

The plan was to let that massive Austrian force of 400K-800K men (varying in size over the two years) collapse for lack of Organization, and either surrender due to being surrounded or by being beaten to the province they fled to (I had to break the encirclement several times for my weak surrounding stacks to avoid another inbound stack of 100K-200K reinforcements). That collapse never happened, probably as a direct result of my strong defensive general "buying the farm" too soon.

 

[thedarkendstar]

Yes, they're definitely stronger than usual. Normally, I see them jump to the top of the Industry ratings for a few years, until the UK and US surpass them, and sit about #4-5 in Military rank. This game, they never went over about #3 in Industry, but were the #2 Military power (behind the UK) for most of the game so far. My own Military rating recently eclipsed them as #2, at least until Russia rose up the chart in that respect, but Russian troops generally aren't up to the Western standards at this point, and should continue to slip behind. I don't think I've ever fought a war that brutal in Vicky2 before; I've played other smaller countries and been clearly outmatched and steamrolled by a major, but to have the vast majority of the Prussian/NGF army radically outnumbered and effectively stalemated by Austria for the better part of 2 years was unexpected. I could see those kinds of numbers coming out of Russia, but not Austria.

Thanks for the tip about breaking off and rejoining combat. I didn't realize you could pull one army out of the ongoing combat without leaving massive holes in your front line, although in retrospect I would assume that by that stage, the entire army of that first (deceased) general would be in need of withdrawing anyway. The second, weaker general could have been pulled back then, and possibly a third general with a higher defensive stat (+1 or +2) would have taken over. A shame, if I had pulled those first armies back, they'd have had 6-12 months to recover, and then rejoin the fight or do something else constructive.

The plan was to let that massive Austrian force of 400K-800K men (varying in size over the two years) collapse for lack of Organization, and either surrender due to being surrounded or by being beaten to the province they fled to (I had to break the encirclement several times for my weak surrounding stacks to avoid another inbound stack of 100K-200K reinforcements). That collapse never happened, probably as a direct result of my strong defensive general "buying the farm" too soon.

You should have kept the war going to destroy Austria all you would need to do is occupy them for say 3-5 years and immigration will spike leading to population loss while yours grows all there factories would go bankrupt there people broke and they will lose GP status and all their sphere lings. While you can build up your army while still at war.

 

[Kovax]

Sounds like time for a replay. There were several "missed opportunities", such as letting Netherlands off the hook for free, after covering their continental holdings like a coat of paint. I didn't place a wargoal, just to put them out of the war, but could have gotten a "place in the sun" or something. At least 2-3 Austrian stacks of 20-30K men managed to escape being surrounded, and there was the obvious "battle that never ended". I may have to try it over on the weekend, and see if I can force a better outcome. As it was, I felt fortunate just to have it end successfully, but in retrospect, they were pretty much on the rocks, and the Ottos weren't about to change that.