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Slavv

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Feb 21, 2017
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I'm going to be starting a brand new co op with a friend, him on holland, me on brandenburg. Early tips/goals so I don't get immediately fucked?

Good idea groups? I want to go heavy military focus (Shocker)
Thanks.
 

Incompetent

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Early on, wars won't come down to your military ideas, but rather getting the jump on military tech and having better alliances. Don't grab too much land at once in the HRE; the coalitions will make you regret it. You'll want to get access to some non-HRE land you can expand into, e.g. Denmark or along the Baltic coast. But there also plenty of ways to gain strength in the HRE that don't involve taking land: stealing money, Showing Strength and eventually emperorship. You're an elector and need to go Protestant/Reformed to form Prussia, so probably your best path to emperorship is to convert to Protestant on day 1 of the Reformation and lead the Protestant League to victory.
 

Zohtun

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In no particular order and not mutually exclusive with the previous poster:

Take down Pomerenia early for some extra money and land. Watch your AE carefully thanks to the HRE doubling expansion. Don't be afraid to tell Austria to go frick itself, but keep their relations positive. Try to ally Poland and set the Prussian lands of TO as of interest. When Poland drags you into their war with TO, rush to the lands you desire and grab them before Poland can (leave the Polish lands alone to keep Poland pacified). If you can, try to declare the TO war yourself promising Poland land. Give them the Polish lands, stab them in the back if they object that they're not being paid enough (they will probably stay allied even with the trust hit, but don't do it twice unless you want to break the alliance).

Vassalise the LO if possible in the 2nd or 3rd war against the TO. It'll give you a foothold in the east to later expand into the PLC once they decide your friendship is over.

Expand into territories which Austria dislikes. You can check Austria's opinions of the land you're going for which will help (if it's negative 50 or more it generally will mean Austria will shrug and leave it be if you invade it).
 

Slavv

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Feb 21, 2017
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So expand east moreso than west? Also should I buy the land that TO offers for 200 or just conquer it?

Should I ally austria or are there better people to ally. Is trying to become emperor a good idea or should I just focus on expanding correctly?
 

Viktor Vaughn

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I always buy Neumark if it's offered. You can go west, but you'll go much slower there due to high AE. Austria is a decent ally, the emperor often doesn't demand unlawful territory from allies. But that comes with risks of being allied to the emperor and getting dragged in all sorts of dumb wars. I don't think emperorship is something you need, once you get to the point where you're a valid candidate (after the league war) you're going to be pretty strong anyway and the emperor bonuses won't have as big an impact. It can be pretty fun to dismantle the HRE and then go wild.
 

makaramus

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vassalize teutonic order when they lost most of their land
then force convert them to protestant so they will become prussia before you annex them
when they do all their cores turn into prussia cores wich means after annexing them they will also become your cores too. key thing is you need to vassal them when they lost most of their land so you wont need to pay diplo points for those lands to annex them :)
 

Zohtun

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vassalize teutonic order when they lost most of their land
then force convert them to protestant so they will become prussia before you annex them
when they do all their cores turn into prussia cores wich means after annexing them they will also become your cores too. key thing is you need to vassal them when they lost most of their land so you wont need to pay diplo points for those lands to annex them :)
Vassals can't tag-switch.
 

MaticT

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1. RM Bohemia, Poland (especially if they rival each other), Ally Saxony, claim on Anhalt and Mecklenburg (if Luneburg and Anhalt rival you both, claim on those two as they will ally each other)
2. wait for Hohenzollern to pop up in Bohemia and Poland to get that Union event, ally Poland
3.1. In case you have bigger prestige than Bohemia you can claim their throne and drag Poland into the war
3.2 if you don't, attack either Anhalt or Mecklenburg (depends on their allies) and as soon as you finish that war, hopefully Poland didn't attack Teutonic order yet and Czech claim didn't expire yet. Poland will hate you for not getting any provinces in the peace deal, but screw them, PU over Bohemia is worth it.
...that's the best start for Brandenburg.

Later on, try getting Luneburg and/or both Mecklenburg provinces right before you attack Pommerania and vassalize them.
After that it's situational, I tend to use Pommeranian claim for Danzig and either annexing Danzig or vassalizing whole TO - depends on what Poland has done in the mean while.
Look after Lubeck and Hamburg and it doesn't hurt trying to get the Burgundian inheritance, if you achieve that, Brandenburg is already a superpower in 1500.
 

Zephyrum

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Neumark is worth the 100 ducats price because, if I recall, it comes with a low autonomy, and it's a fair bit of AE/admin/prov WS cost saved if you get the chance.
 

I_am_Nemo

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My initial goal as BB is Pomerania > TO land. Generally, ally Saxony, ally Mecklenberg, improve with/RM Poland so they want to ally later. Fab on Pomerania's capital. Attack Pomerania, call Meck for land. Since you fabbed on the capital, Meck should flip it to you if they get the siege leadership somehow. Then vassal Pom. Ideally you only have to give up one province to avoid a trust hit with Meck; they'll immediately return it when the Emperor demands.

If you have to, maybe take a Pomeranian province yourself so you can fab on TO; in my current game I got lucky in that Pomerania put some claims on TO at the start, so I just used those. Once you have a claim on TO, ally Poland, dec TO, call Poland for land. Get occupations on Danzig and Konigsburg; as these are the "key" lands you'll need to form Prussia. Assuming Poland has the PU on Lith, you can feed LO lands to Lith to satisfy the Poles. If you just take Danzig and Konigsburg in the first war, you can probably avoid the trust hit without giving the Poles any TO land.

Once all that is done, I tend to expand back west; basically, you're looking for any chance you can get to control trade centers in the Lubeck node. I usually vassal > integrate, as it keeps the AE lower and avoids the whole unlawful territory bit, but you can probably directly conquer if you want. Free cities may have to be left until later, unless the emperor is getting run over by Ottos or something, in in which case he may just decline the call. You'll have to eat the penalties for unlawful, though. When/if Sweden breaks free, or even before, you can go after Denmark for their capital, to get the trade power there. Other than that, wherever you see an opportunity to eat dev.

Idea groups - Either influence or diplo as a first group. I'd probably prefer diplo, as you get the + 1 diplomat and + 1 relations right up front, you can keep your diplomats busy improving relations to help avoid coalitions. Most of the annexations will be small, so influence probably isn't as helpful here, though the additional dip slot and extra AE reduction would certainly be nice. Taking both is certainly viable, but I don't think necessary. For admin groups, I like Econ, as you get some nice policies with Econ + Off and Econ + Qual; Innovative gives you another couple nice policies; if you don't bother with either humanist/religious you can definitely take it in that slot, otherwise you're starting to run out of idea picks. For mil groups, I'd pick Def first (probably second overall) and the qual/off in whichever order you prefer. You could maybe get by without off if you wanted, but why? If you're doing limited expansion, quan probably isn't needed, but you could pick it up somewhere in there if you have the idea picks. More manpower certainly never hurts, especially if you have the opportunity to drill between wars.
 

ThatRabidPotato

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My initial goal as BB is Pomerania > TO land. Generally, ally Saxony, ally Mecklenberg, improve with/RM Poland so they want to ally later. Fab on Pomerania's capital. Attack Pomerania, call Meck for land. Since you fabbed on the capital, Meck should flip it to you if they get the siege leadership somehow. Then vassal Pom. Ideally you only have to give up one province to avoid a trust hit with Meck; they'll immediately return it when the Emperor demands.

If you have to, maybe take a Pomeranian province yourself so you can fab on TO; in my current game I got lucky in that Pomerania put some claims on TO at the start, so I just used those. Once you have a claim on TO, ally Poland, dec TO, call Poland for land. Get occupations on Danzig and Konigsburg; as these are the "key" lands you'll need to form Prussia. Assuming Poland has the PU on Lith, you can feed LO lands to Lith to satisfy the Poles. If you just take Danzig and Konigsburg in the first war, you can probably avoid the trust hit without giving the Poles any TO land.

Once all that is done, I tend to expand back west; basically, you're looking for any chance you can get to control trade centers in the Lubeck node. I usually vassal > integrate, as it keeps the AE lower and avoids the whole unlawful territory bit, but you can probably directly conquer if you want. Free cities may have to be left until later, unless the emperor is getting run over by Ottos or something, in in which case he may just decline the call. You'll have to eat the penalties for unlawful, though. When/if Sweden breaks free, or even before, you can go after Denmark for their capital, to get the trade power there. Other than that, wherever you see an opportunity to eat dev.

Idea groups - Either influence or diplo as a first group. I'd probably prefer diplo, as you get the + 1 diplomat and + 1 relations right up front, you can keep your diplomats busy improving relations to help avoid coalitions. Most of the annexations will be small, so influence probably isn't as helpful here, though the additional dip slot and extra AE reduction would certainly be nice. Taking both is certainly viable, but I don't think necessary. For admin groups, I like Econ, as you get some nice policies with Econ + Off and Econ + Qual; Innovative gives you another couple nice policies; if you don't bother with either humanist/religious you can definitely take it in that slot, otherwise you're starting to run out of idea picks. For mil groups, I'd pick Def first (probably second overall) and the qual/off in whichever order you prefer. You could maybe get by without off if you wanted, but why? If you're doing limited expansion, quan probably isn't needed, but you could pick it up somewhere in there if you have the idea picks. More manpower certainly never hurts, especially if you have the opportunity to drill between wars.
I agree on the opening moves, but disagree on the idea groups. Your best picks are Innovative/Quality/Influence, in that order. Influence helps with diploannexing and vassals, and your moves within Germany and the HRE are going to be almost entirely diploannexing. Innovative/Quality's policy stacks with your NIs and Quality's own buff to give you +50% infantry combat ability, as soon as you finish filling out your first two groups. That alone will allow you to basically attack whoever you want with the certainty of victory.
 

Zohtun

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With the exception of Brandenburg and the Teutonic Order, when forming Prussia.

teutonic order is diffrent... in history they were vassal of poland when they formed prussia so in game they are allowed to switch tag to prussia as vassal too.
Huh. Okay then. Learn something new every day.