Prussia Question

[Susan1972]

Why do you have to massively sabotage yourself to go with "Prussian Monarchy"? It wrecks your governing capacity for very minor gains so why would you pick it in the first place and how to you get the GC back without unstating most of your nation?

 

[Republic of Mercury]

Because it's meant to be a way for a more historically-sized Prussia to still be able to field a stronger and larger army than comparatively-sized nation in the game.

I might have considered ditching it back when militarization was strictly-impacted by your number of owned provinces, but now that you can remove the governing-capacity usage of territories (and trade companies!) with courthouses/town halls, meaning you can grow as big as you like and keep militarization at 100%, Prussia->Germany is extremely strong.

 

[Opanashc]

Why do you have to massively sabotage yourself to go with "Prussian Monarchy"? It wrecks your governing capacity for very minor gains so why would you pick it in the first place and how to you get the GC back without unstating most of your nation?

While Prussia was small, the king was able to take personal part in all the ongoing shinenigans in the country. As it grew larger, that ability vanished (only so many hours in a day), and efficiency dropped.

 

[agonistes]

Why do you have to massively sabotage yourself to go with "Prussian Monarchy"? It wrecks your governing capacity for very minor gains so why would you pick it in the first place and how to you get the GC back without unstating most of your nation?

You can pick a different reform on the same tier. I usually save up the reform points when tech 10 is approaching.

 

[MatthewP]

Why do you have to massively sabotage yourself to go with "Prussian Monarchy"? It wrecks your governing capacity for very minor gains so why would you pick it in the first place and how to you get the GC back without unstating most of your nation?

Just to clarify, the minor gains you’re referring to are significantly better military bonuses than any idea group, plus some other things that would be amazing for a “normal” government like -2 unrest, -war exhaustion, and +10 max absolutism.

edit: do you know about the militarization mechanic/have rights of man? If you can’t use this mechanic or aren’t aware of it I can see why you would find the base bonuses underwhelming, and it is a bit non-obvious if you aren’t expecting it.

 

[Dracupuncture]

minor gains

I'm sorry, what?

being able to take on armies 4x your size is one hell of a trade-off. not minor at all.

 

[PDXJon]

Why do you have to massively sabotage yourself to go with "Prussian Monarchy"? It wrecks your governing capacity for very minor gains so why would you pick it in the first place and how to you get the GC back without unstating most of your nation?

I’m doing a WC right now with the Prussian government, it only slows you down for a period of time. The military bonuses are good and the +3 monarch military power is excellent. The GC mauls can be fixed with ideas, buildings, and monuments.

 

[Vin55]

While Prussia was small, the king was able to take personal part in all the ongoing shinenigans in the country. As it grew larger, that ability vanished (only so many hours in a day), and efficiency dropped.

Not true, it was the most efficient state in the HRE even as it grew, through reforms, like mandatory school and the first german code of administration. It was also sucessfull when it was beaten, in growing back to old strength. If prussia gets punished, then other nations like Spain or the Russians should have even worse modifiers. This is just inplace to "balance" the stupid militarisation mechanic which should have never been in the game or just be something u can activate whilst at war with points.

 

[MachopPower69]

The -50% gov cap nerf was because Prussia is literally overpowered with its high discipline and army modifiers. Think of it as the Ottomans but with -50% gov cap.

Speaking of Prussia, I'd like to see it be more common. I never see it form because the TO never survives to keep Konigsberg and Danzig after being crushed by PLC. Perhaps an event after the order is crushed is to establish a Duchy of Prussia as a march of Poland. If Brandenburg and Prussia become Protestant, then they can form a union, like in real life.

 

[Opanashc]

Not true, it was the most efficient state in the HRE even as it grew, through reforms, like mandatory school and the first german code of administration. It was also sucessfull when it was beaten, in growing back to old strength. If prussia gets punished, then other nations like Spain or the Russians should have even worse modifiers. This is just inplace to "balance" the stupid militarisation mechanic which should have never been in the game or just be something u can activate whilst at war with points.

Just because it was still the most efficient, does not mean it was as efficient as it used to. Look at 7 Years War, when Prussia fought against 3 biggest nations in Europe, and the War of Bavarian Succession, when just one of them was enough. Look at Prussian performance during Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars (until 6th coalition), where it demonstrated abysmal performance.

 

[Vin55]

Just because it was still the most efficient, does not mean it was as efficient as it used to. Look at 7 Years War, when Prussia fought against 3 biggest nations in Europe, and the War of Bavarian Succession, when just one of them was enough. Look at Prussian performance during Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars (until 6th coalition), where it demonstrated abysmal performance.

The 7 Year War was massive luck and a good Generals, the Napoleonic Wars, were in the beginning bad, but later through reforms it gainend strength never seen before and made Prussia into a true Great Power.

 

[Susan1972]

Just to clarify, the minor gains you’re referring to are significantly better military bonuses than any idea group, plus some other things that would be amazing for a “normal” government like -2 unrest, -war exhaustion, and +10 max absolutism.

edit: do you know about the militarization mechanic/have rights of man? If you can’t use this mechanic or aren’t aware of it I can see why you would find the base bonuses underwhelming, and it is a bit non-obvious if you aren’t expecting it.

Looks like I still have some things to learn. I missed that while having the "A Fine Goosestep" cheeve.

 

[Opanashc]

The 7 Year War was massive luck and a good Generals, the Napoleonic Wars, were in the beginning bad, but later through reforms it gainend strength never seen before and made Prussia into a true Great Power.

Who created those generals?
As for last 2 years of Napoleonic Wars, Prussia did not show effectiveness way above anyone else - just numbers.

 

[Vin55]

Who created those generals?
As for last 2 years of Napoleonic Wars, Prussia did not show effectiveness way above anyone else - just numbers.

It did, Waterloo withouth the Prussians would have been a British defeat, the Russians where those with numbers. The Prussians did abolish the serfdom of there peasants back then and increased the schooling even further. Who created those generals, well I would saay their farthers did, but not the state the education was the same for all nobles back then, he was just more interested than others and had luck with Berlin, the Tsar and with being shot at.

 

[grandadmiralbob]

Oh wow... buff Prussia... It never ceases.
Build govt. buildings. They are easy to afford by making your enemies pay for them in wars. You can also use the estates for an extra 150, and use govt. points to add small amounts. There's also vassals to give land to. I haven't tried it, but you can also centralize the state and take admin ideas. Many ways to combat GC.

 

[Opanashc]

It did, Waterloo withouth the Prussians would have been a British defeat, the Russians where those with numbers.

I still fail to see, where Prussia was "way more effective" than anyone else.

 

[Fergi]

Prussia is fine right now. I played this tag many times and never used the admin ideas. And with the updated "centralize the state" Prussia is even stronger. It gives now -25% statewide governing cost, with Town hall -50% province governing cost and State house with -20%/(-40%) statewide governing cost a province with 40 development causes almost no costs (late game). Playing Prussia means you expand slow and play tall. The only massive sabotage for Prussia is the Brandenburg Gate, its modifiers just don't make any sense!

 

[Vin55]

Prussia is fine right now. I played this tag many times and never used the admin ideas. And with the updated "centralize the state" Prussia is even stronger. It gives now -25% statewide governing cost, with Town hall -50% province governing cost and State house with -20%/(-40%) statewide governing cost a province with 40 development causes almost no costs (late game). Playing Prussia means you expand slow and play tall. The only massive sabotage for Prussia is the Brandenburg Gate, its modifiers just don't make any sense!

Then u are slow to conquer, if u have nothern germany without admin ideas you will be over the limit even with townhouses, it is a microclickfest which is not fun and it sucks. The gate itself should not be a wonder it became a national simbol in the napolionic wars there where more importand buildings in nothern Europe than it.

 

[Vin55]

I still fail to see, where Prussia was "way more effective" than anyone else.

Well having smaller population than most other nations but filding a larger army, being economical powerfull, being able to dominate most of europe in less than 50 years without colonies and other income sources.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

Not true, it was the most efficient state in the HRE even as it grew, through reforms, like mandatory school and the first german code of administration. It was also sucessfull when it was beaten, in growing back to old strength. If prussia gets punished, then other nations like Spain or the Russians should have even worse modifiers. This is just inplace to "balance" the stupid militarisation mechanic which should have never been in the game or just be something u can activate whilst at war with points.

Spain got forced bankruptcies in previous patches, russia is russia