Prussia in 1.03

[Janster]

Prussia is hopeless in 1.03

We had recently a 3 player 1.03 game, and concluded after 4 games, that it is NOT possible to run a profitable Prussia in 1.03 ..same as 1.02 really.

Reasons.
There is no sulphur, this makes production in ammo,fertilizer,explosive and arty impossible...4 factories grounded ...an economic disaster!
This is not improved that this commodity grows even more scarce as time goes, need more of it in the world !

There is simply WAYYYYYY too much rebels, they STILL pop out of the woodwork...we can't be putting down 5-10k rebels 2-3 times a month for 30 years(1840-70), it NOT very funny. There is no money for social or any other reforms, thus the Prussian cannot use these to calm them storm.
Austria aswell must get less revolts, its simply thedious.

As for taking Paris, not possible, France is too strong...to hi-tech and too much everything..Russia is a juggernaut, altough I'm not uncomfortable with the idea, just as long as Prussia gets some more production going, and more money.

This is important, Prussia is one of the main contenders on the VIC scene, they cannot be left in this crippled state.

Janster

 

[unmerged(21942)]

Prussia problem will be solved in UMP for 1.03 release - I can promise you that!

 

[Janster]

Coo, cause we had a smashing game, but with such a weak Prussian the whole european theater collapses on itself

Jan

 

[unmerged(23687)]

Janster, look in the Global Revolution Event-Data. It shows you the way how the big bad 48er Event not to trigger.
I play 1.03 Prussia, i am now at 1848 and i am doing fine till now. I think its hard but possible to lead Prussia in 1.03 to success

 

[Janster]

hmm I didn't know it was a way to escape it, but the revolts are just annoying to put down all the time, they don't seem to hamper my economy, which is the main reason why you cannot succeed with Prussia.
Altough mind you, in an MP setting, single player, you might be able to capture Jamaica or something which has Sulphur.

Or survive a fight and take Nassau.

But compared to what France and Russia is, you don't have a chance against either...

Janster

 

[unmerged(23687)]

I will try to explain, what i did in SP
At first i declared War to the little German States and annexed the importend ones with necessary ressources. Conquer not to many, to avoid BB-Wars
After the war (make a fast peace with Bavaria before they mobilize their Troops) i reduced Military Spendings to minimum. And made an Alliance with Russia to get my back free.

My Settings after the war till now are:

Taxes 48/48/48
Tarifs 100%
Education 50%
Police 35%

Defence+Maintainance accumulated about 20-25
My focus from now on was Economy and a bit colonization
My focus in Industrie is consumer-goods (glass for example give much more Profit than in 1.02. Steel and other Building Materials are less valueable.

My Surplus around 1845 is +90. This gives the opportunitie for a fast growing economy and Infrastructure.
And dont forget to go a bit into dept to buy the necessary reforms to avoid the liberal Revolution. The liberal Revolution Event can last 5 Years. Its cheaper to buy the reforms, than to spend 5 Years much more Money into Military to fight against the rebells.

 

[unmerged(20829)]

I really had no problem with 1.02, now with 1.03 things are a bit easier... so please...
I usually have no problem winning as Prussia even in MP games.

 

[Xrybnix]

why would you need sulphur ?
the whole weapon-manufacturing tree isn´t exactly the ultimate moneymaker anyway.
You have 30 machine parts in the beginning, that is enough for eg.
4 Steel mills, 2 lumber mill, 1 paper mill, 2 clothes factories (note that you don´t need to produce the fabric yourself in 1.03, but you could also easily do that as fabric factories now cost only 1 machine part) and a glass factory.
that should make some nice profit, and more techs for machine parts are in sight.

I agree that beating a human-controlled austria or france seems difficult, however.

Unifying with the "three hurrays" event if france is ai controlled is however pretty simple if you are well-prepared.
that means that you have to research army techs from like 1850 on, in order to get most of the inventions too, not only the techs;
then you have to build some military (of course... 20 divisions with attachments should however be more than enough);
and be sure you have good relations with belgium and military access or a defense pact with them.
As soon as France attacks you use 10 divisions to defend against the french in saarbrücken and the remaining 10 to rush over arlon/charleville-mézières/laon to Paris.
There usually is near to no defense, and the terrain comes in handy for you as attacker (only small penalties).

You don´t need to destroy the french army or something, you just need to hold Paris a few days, and it´s not hard defended.

btw. I prefer 100 education and zero police over some half/half thingie. You really need that techs and the crime is not all that bad except for the one that causes the stock market crashs.

 

[Theodotus1]

Read my post in thread "1.03" where I give comparisons between Prussia and Russia. You will see why Prussia can't win in this game. This is primarily because Paradox hates anything Germany. Their biggotry has gotten the better of them in each "historical" game they have ever produced, from EU I to HOI.

Lots of people seem to think that the unification of Germany was pre-ordained, and that Prussia/Germany should for some reason always be a massive industrial power. None of this jibes well with actual history.

The Unification was influenced as much by individual personalities as it was by anything else, and was therefore unpredictable in certain fundamental respects.

Prussia's presumed economic supremecy remains something of a mystery to me, as Prussia was not spoken of at the time in quite such terms.

I think people are superimposing their imaginations on these issues to at least some extent. (However powerful you believe Prussia to have been, please provide historical support for your argument.)

 

[Theodotus1]

why would you need sulphur ?
the whole weapon-manufacturing tree isn´t exactly the ultimate moneymaker anyway.
You have 30 machine parts in the beginning, that is enough for eg.
4 Steel mills, 2 lumber mill, 1 paper mill, 2 clothes factories (note that you don´t need to produce the fabric yourself in 1.03, but you could also easily do that as fabric factories now cost only 1 machine part) and a glass factory.
that should make some nice profit, and more techs for machine parts are in sight.

I agree that beating a human-controlled austria or france seems difficult, however.

Unifying with the "three hurrays" event if france is ai controlled is however pretty simple if you are well-prepared.
that means that you have to research army techs from like 1850 on, in order to get most of the inventions too, not only the techs;
then you have to build some military (of course... 20 divisions with attachments should however be more than enough);
and be sure you have good relations with belgium and military access or a defense pact with them.
As soon as France attacks you use 10 divisions to defend against the french in saarbrücken and the remaining 10 to rush over arlon/charleville-mézières/laon to Paris.
There usually is near to no defense, and the terrain comes in handy for you as attacker (only small penalties).

You don´t need to destroy the french army or something, you just need to hold Paris a few days, and it´s not hard defended.

btw. I prefer 100 education and zero police over some half/half thingie. You really need that techs and the crime is not all that bad except for the one that causes the stock market crashs.

I get the feeling that many people get so caught up in how they think things should work that they follow unproductive strategies.

Many people seem to hold a conviction that, for example, selling arms should be very profitable, and pursue that even in the face of contrary data.

 

[Jon F. Zeigler]

(Shrug.)

My first game under 1.03, I'm playing Prussia and having no difficulty whatsoever. I've managed to grow the economy, take out Austria with ease in the 1866 war, and defeat France in the 1871 war with a little bit of effort. The nationalist unrest after the unification of Germany has been a little troublesome, but nothing I can't handle.

The claim that Prussia is impossible to play under 1.03 is looking pretty silly from where I sit.

 

[BennyB]

Prussia was way more powerful than Vicotira projects it in terms of military power. There is absolutely no representation of Prussia's military culture of the time. Throughout its history Prussia defeated France, Russia, Austria, Poland, and Sweden. At the time of these attacks each country was larger and considered more powerful than Prussia but its small, yet amazingly efficient military prevailed. Of course Napolean defeated the Prussians, but during the time fram Prussia had insituted reforms into their army because of their loss. A hard coded bonus such as a morale twice as much as any other army and higher organization would be a good way to represent this. As it is however, Prussia's military just isnt much to talk about, and the budget problems dont help. The armament industry was profitable for Prussia, in fact it was a major aspect of the entire Prussian society, with most of the populace involved somehow in the army.

 

[Dinsdale]

Ignorance! Really?

Yes, and you keep finding original and masterful methods of displaying it, almost as though you are a professional.

PARADOX is a company, that seems to have anti-German sentiments, but then again so does the Simon Weisenthal center in the US, does that mean that the US is anti-German. Hardly likely.

First of all, I have a feeling you might need one of these http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html

Now, when you're comfortable in that let;s review;

1) Paradox does not show anti-German sentiments, unless you can find a post from one of their employees stating such sentiments.

2) The Wiesenthal centre is anti-Nazi, though if you wish to blanket all Germans as being Nazis then yes, Wiesenthal would be anti German.

Let's continue

As for mentioning Austria. Austria is not Germany. Prussia is Germany.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

History, like common sense appears to pass you by quite superbly. Honestly, this might be one of the most precious pieces of nonsense I've read in a long time, congratulations!

It's all part of the zionist-Swedish plot isn't it Eric :rofl:

 

[Johnny Canuck]

I have deleted those posts in this thread that were a violation of board rules or were off-topic. Let's keep the focus on discussing the position of Prussia in the 1.03 patch, or this thread will be closed.

 

[Trin Tragula]

Throughout its history Prussia defeated France, Russia, Austria, Poland, and Sweden. At the time of these attacks each country was larger and considered more powerful than Prussia but its small, yet amazingly efficient military prevailed.

Poland was hardly considered a powerfull nation when she was partitioned
And besides both Poland and Sweden (not sure which war you where refering to here) are way before the victoria era

 

[unmerged(14689)]

Sweden (not sure which war you where refering to here)

The Great Northern War in which the Prussians did next to nothing, most probably (and got quite a lot...)

 

[Spruce]

Well my first 1.03 game was with Prussia SP, I've nearly finished. The following things to comment. This was the first time I was going for the popular unification method,

- defeating Austria in the German control matter was not not difficult,
- defeating France and getting the 3 hurrays was difficult, but thank god the Englisch were on my side because I had to fight Austria and France at the same time,
- so I became Germany - really cool. The only problem is that the bad boy value was going to 50. I was thinking that's high, but I can live with that. Not for the Russians, they dow'd me every 5 or 6 years. So I had to fight many German-Russian wars, what's kind of cool,

all these wars kept my on the trail for massive prestige, so that was ok. My industry was mediocre, not good and not bad. My military was good,

conclusion =

- the game's more fun with 1.03, especially warfare,
- the Russians are that enraged by the German unification that they dow'd me 6 times over a period of 35 years,
- the Russians also pump massive money in their economy - incredible - even if he has no pops to man those factories (result is many empty factories),
- the USA and the UK seem to manage to field a huge standing army,

arms industry - mainly artillery - becomes profitable later in the game, the migration model is working very nice, I've even seen some European continental migration,

 

[Arado]

We had recently a 3 player 1.03 game, and concluded after 4 games, that it is NOT possible to run a profitable Prussia in 1.03 ..same as 1.02 really.

Reasons.
There is no sulphur, this makes production in ammo,fertilizer,explosive and arty impossible...4 factories grounded ...an economic disaster!
This is not improved that this commodity grows even more scarce as time goes, need more of it in the world !

There is simply WAYYYYYY too much rebels, they STILL pop out of the woodwork...we can't be putting down 5-10k rebels 2-3 times a month for 30 years(1840-70), it NOT very funny. There is no money for social or any other reforms, thus the Prussian cannot use these to calm them storm.
Austria aswell must get less revolts, its simply thedious.

As for taking Paris, not possible, France is too strong...to hi-tech and too much everything..Russia is a juggernaut, altough I'm not uncomfortable with the idea, just as long as Prussia gets some more production going, and more money.

This is important, Prussia is one of the main contenders on the VIC scene, they cannot be left in this crippled state.

Janster

I play tested 1.03 yesterday, and it seemed a far cry from 1.02. I didn't have a problem with sulfur shortages, or anything else for that matter. I have to ask, what was your prestige when you ran out of sulphur? Mine hovered around 80, so I didnt have too much trouble getting what i wanted, and I could even buy machine parts. Having played Prussia several times leads me to say that you need to be prepared for the big events. And they are all doable. If you still dont like what you see, modify the resource inputs in the appropriate files. I dont do this unless its a last resort, but if it makes the game what you want it to be, do it!

Arado

 

[Spruce]

oops !

nearly forgotten to say = one of the best tips for playing Prussia is to get military acces trough Belgium. I've stayed friends with Belgium - altough I never accepted the London treaty - for the whole game,

when you need paris just march with a speedy gonzales general trough Belgium and end up in Paris - HURAH !

 

[unmerged(21771)]

Sulphur is pretty damn cheap to buy on the WM...seems to me if you want the WarPath, then you'll have to be dependant on the WM for it, although it shouldn't be that hard...