Give your ideas what should be done to improve Prussian economy/military in 1.03 GC.
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Prussia suffers greatly from lack of sulfur. This way or that, it absolutely has to be fixed. And, Prussia is notably slow to industrialize - they build little to no railroads, less factories than needed. That's how I see the problem.
in almost every game i play, france beats the shit out of prussia... and that just isn't supposed to happen.
not to mention, i've noticed that since 1.03 France has nearly all of its african colonial areas nearly completely colonized(in build still...) by the 1840s...
not to mention, i've noticed that since 1.03 France has nearly all of its african colonial areas nearly completely colonized(in build still...) by the 1840s...
The sulphur is all I can think of that would directly help them. I think some reworking of the alliance triggers should be in order as well, though even if they had some help from the German minors I think it would still be unequal.
I was playing Spain and during the 1871 war I joined the Dutch/Prussian vs. Belgum/France war and even with me occupying all of southern France and drawing off at least 250k probably more like 300k the Prussians got bogged down and had to ask for a white peace after a year. That was with AI at Furious.
I was playing Spain and during the 1871 war I joined the Dutch/Prussian vs. Belgum/France war and even with me occupying all of southern France and drawing off at least 250k probably more like 300k the Prussians got bogged down and had to ask for a white peace after a year. That was with AI at Furious.
So far I have only played GC as the USA and Prussia, the USA was using 1.02 so a completely different feel than 1.03. Some observations on Prussia, agreed with the others sulphur, is a major achilles heel, in particular with the starting armament factories which are all sulphur dependent.
I decided to tackle the sulphur issue, by modding Breslau and Deutsch Krone to produce sulphur. Breslau was at 150% -> 7.5, Deutsch Krone 50% -> 2.5 (I think?) this solved the sulphur problem, maybe too much so
. However, there is a more fundamental problem, even being able to produce sulphur, Prussian industry is such were you do not produce nor can you import enough goods to make your small arms, explosives and artillery factories efficient/profitable.
The key to making Prussia profitable using 1.03 factory set up is to be able to actually produce artillery. I noticed with the sulphur addition that there would be a big uptick in exports when enough resources were accumulated to produce artillery. The problem, though is if this is done Prussia may have too many factories, since you would need on order of three fertilizer, three (maybe four) ammunition and two explosives factories just to keep the small arms and artillery factory operational. I am beginning to think that because of the dependences on ammunition, the factory output should be increased for these.
I may have to look more closely at the starting Great Powers and see which if any can actually produce artillery with their initial factory set up. If none of the Great Powers can produce cannon it maybe a global economic problem that needs to be fixed. Great Britian and France, at least, should be able to produce artillery from the begining with their economic structure, if this is not the case then an adjustment may need to be made on fertilizer and ammunition factory outputs.
I decided to tackle the sulphur issue, by modding Breslau and Deutsch Krone to produce sulphur. Breslau was at 150% -> 7.5, Deutsch Krone 50% -> 2.5 (I think?) this solved the sulphur problem, maybe too much so
. However, there is a more fundamental problem, even being able to produce sulphur, Prussian industry is such were you do not produce nor can you import enough goods to make your small arms, explosives and artillery factories efficient/profitable. The key to making Prussia profitable using 1.03 factory set up is to be able to actually produce artillery. I noticed with the sulphur addition that there would be a big uptick in exports when enough resources were accumulated to produce artillery. The problem, though is if this is done Prussia may have too many factories, since you would need on order of three fertilizer, three (maybe four) ammunition and two explosives factories just to keep the small arms and artillery factory operational. I am beginning to think that because of the dependences on ammunition, the factory output should be increased for these.
I may have to look more closely at the starting Great Powers and see which if any can actually produce artillery with their initial factory set up. If none of the Great Powers can produce cannon it maybe a global economic problem that needs to be fixed. Great Britian and France, at least, should be able to produce artillery from the begining with their economic structure, if this is not the case then an adjustment may need to be made on fertilizer and ammunition factory outputs.
The art producing industry can be made profitable without modding the game. Maybe not from the start but later in the game. I made them profitable by building railroads and also stockpiling and buying the raw materials while the art factory was closed.
Also I dont think the suplhur shortage is such a big issue here. Yes it's hard to get but still.
Most of all I'd like to someone try to improve pop cash amounts or the pay they get, or their consuming needs. So that we see if there is anything we can do to this pop cash issue. I hate them clerks devolving.
Edit: OK Derek said it's not pops needs which cause devolving, but lack of cash and > 50% tax. However it would be nice if pops could get their life needs sustained and also some cash.
Also I dont think the suplhur shortage is such a big issue here. Yes it's hard to get but still.
Most of all I'd like to someone try to improve pop cash amounts or the pay they get, or their consuming needs. So that we see if there is anything we can do to this pop cash issue. I hate them clerks devolving.
Edit: OK Derek said it's not pops needs which cause devolving, but lack of cash and > 50% tax. However it would be nice if pops could get their life needs sustained and also some cash.
Last edited:
I don't like the idea of improving Prussia by giving them sulphur. In my opinion most of the challenge in Victoria is the making of strategic choices, like: Where can I get Sulphur? Have a look at the economic map and you'll see, that i.e. Mainz has Sulphur. So you have to look for an opportunity to annex Mainz. You even have a chance of getting it without triggering the German alliance system. Simply wait for a successful uprising in Mainz -- you'll get it in 1848 at last. The revolution will cancel the alliances. Bad for Mainz, because now its prey for Prussia ...
Giving Prussia a completly working economy makes the game much to simple!
Giving Prussia a completly working economy makes the game much to simple!
Lares said:I don't like the idea of improving Prussia by giving them sulphur. In my opinion most of the challenge in Victoria is the making of strategic choices, like: Where can I get Sulphur? Have a look at the economic map and you'll see, that i.e. Mainz has Sulphur. So you have to look for an opportunity to annex Mainz. You even have a chance of getting it without triggering the German alliance system. Simply wait for a successful uprising in Mainz -- you'll get it in 1848 at last. The revolution will cancel the alliances. Bad for Mainz, because now its prey for Prussia ...
Giving Prussia a completly working economy makes the game much to simple!
To my mind, it is all about improving AI Prussia, not human one. And AI definitely doesn't make these "strategic choices". I'd like to see a strong and challenging Prussia/Germany eery time I play as any other nation.
Walter Hawkwood said:
Well, you know, I really like it, if Prussia has a hard time as an ai. It's kind of alternative history: What would have happened, if Prussia wasn't as successful in conquering all the other minors in Germany. Playing Hanover I would'nt like Prussia being to strong, but maybe thats too selfish ...
I don't think Prussia needs to be improved, I have no problems with it, maybe Ai has some .. don't know.
Lares said:Well, you know, I really like it, if Prussia has a hard time as an ai. It's kind of alternative history: What would have happened, if Prussia wasn't as successful in conquering all the other minors in Germany. Playing Hanover I would'nt like Prussia being to strong, but maybe thats too selfish ...
Well, sometimes, maybe, but not ALL the time. And that's not only for 1.03, but for Vic as a whole. I've only seen Germany form the historical way once, and once from Frankfurt assembly. That kind of kills the idea of playing with, say, Austria, or France, as their biggest trouble is reduced to a nuisance at best.
unknown-X- said:
The answer to this depends on what is sought.
Are people looking for something that simulates history? If so, historical data should guide any changes. Which means research comes first, to determine where, if at all, changes need to be made. (I'm not yet at all convinced Prussia starts ahistorically weak. In any case, hard historical data is needed in order to make a judgment one way or the other.)
On the other hand, if what people want is just a mod that makes them feel like Prussia matches their expectations, regardless of validity of those expectations, then those expectations should control, and a poll should be taken.
I don't expect these two approaches to be compatible with one another, however. I perceive there to be a vast difference between many people's perceptions of Prussia and what can actually be shown to have been the case.
In case anyone was interested here were a few little changes that made a big difference in my games, and Prussia much more successful.
1. On the Spanish succession event add ten infantry divisions to Prussia, to simulate help from the SGF against France, which wasn't already scripted for some reason.
2.Change the province control trigger in the Three Hurrays event, in which you have to control Paris to: won_war = { country = PRU country = FRA }. This means all Prussia has to do is win the war against France after 1870 to become Germany, not control Paris, which I feel is rather arbitrary anyway.
These changes mean Germany will form more often than not, especially when used in conjunction with my revised Italian unification events which help Italy become a reality. In the 1866(?) war against Austria, Prussia will get the Italian alliance event making it more probable that they'll beat Austria too, forming NGF and SGF, and setting the table against France.
1. On the Spanish succession event add ten infantry divisions to Prussia, to simulate help from the SGF against France, which wasn't already scripted for some reason.
2.Change the province control trigger in the Three Hurrays event, in which you have to control Paris to: won_war = { country = PRU country = FRA }. This means all Prussia has to do is win the war against France after 1870 to become Germany, not control Paris, which I feel is rather arbitrary anyway.
These changes mean Germany will form more often than not, especially when used in conjunction with my revised Italian unification events which help Italy become a reality. In the 1866(?) war against Austria, Prussia will get the Italian alliance event making it more probable that they'll beat Austria too, forming NGF and SGF, and setting the table against France.
Conscription is really poorly simulated in Victoria. The main Prussian advantage in '71 was a complete failure of French mobilization, and a conversly sucessful Prussian mobilization. Subtracting about 3-400 manpower between '36 and '71 from France and adding about a quarter of that to Prussia would simulate the mobilization capabilities of the two countries better.
If one were really clever they could script a series of events that gave this manpower bonus/deficit more legitamacy.
Thanks,
Grendel
If one were really clever they could script a series of events that gave this manpower bonus/deficit more legitamacy.
Thanks,
Grendel
Last edited: