Prussia and Memel...

[unmerged(5822)]

Is it correct that Prussia and Memel were "Germanified" at some point in the timespan covered by the game? I keep hearing about it from several different sources on these forums, but it seems that the Prussian events are never being changed accordingly. Could it be settled, once and for all, whether Prussia and Memel should become German or not (upon Brandenburg inheriting or becoming Prussia, perhaps?)?

Can anyone please save me from this confusion?

 

[unmerged(15967)]

I'd say Prussia yes, Memel no. In the later part of the game period either German or Polish culture would be justified (with preference for German because the kingdom of Prussia not gaining full manpower from the province is weird) for the Prussia province. I not sure since when the original Prussians could be considered assimilated, but I think they were already before the end of the Teutonic Order.

 

[unmerged(14428)]

Shouldn't Memel be really tiny? All the maps I've seen have Memel being no more than a small strip of land.

 

[Vytis]

"...Prussia and Memel were "Germanified..."

Strongly disagree about Memel/Klaipeda. Though the castle was built by germans(TO) the province itself was(and is) lithuanian.
Actually it's a pity that instead of large and very important province Zemaitija (Samogitia) we have only small part of it that is represented by Memel. It's because of samogitians(western lithuanians) TO in Prussia and in Livonia were never able to unify their lands.

 

[Chengar Qordath]

I modded my game to turn Prussia and Memel german when the inheritance happens. Just added the following text to this event...

#Prussian incorporation into Brandenburg#

event = {

id = 3517 #Triggers brandenburg event 3636#
trigger = {
exists = BRA
}


date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1615 }
offset = 300
deathdate = { day = 1 month = june year = 1700 }

random = no
country = PRU
name = "EVENTNAME3517"
desc = "EVENTHIST3517"
style = 3

action_a ={ #Unite with Brandenburg#
name = "ACTIONNAME3517A"
command = { type = trigger which = 3636 }
command = { type = provinceculture which = 289 value = german }
command = { type = provinceculture which = 290 value = german }
}
action_b ={ #Keep separate#
name = "ACTIONNAME3517B"
command = { type = relation which = BRA value = -100 }
command = { type = casusbelli which = BRA value = 12 }
}
}

I am not sure about historical accuracy though. All I really know is that Memel was considered to be a part of the German until after WWII. Of course, Hitler also considered the Magyars to be Germanic, so perhaps we should not go with his ideas of what was Germanic and what was not.

 

[unmerged(5822)]

Originally posted by Vytis
"...Prussia and Memel were "Germanified..."

Strongly disagree about Memel/Klaipeda. Though the castle was built by germans(TO) the province itself was(and is) lithuanian.
Actually it's a pity that instead of large and very important province Zemaitija (Samogitia) we have only small part of it that is represented by Memel. It's because of samogitians(western lithuanians) TO in Prussia and in Livonia were never able to unify their lands.

Are you saying that Memel should be Lithuanian?
If yes, what about Prussia and Kurland?

 

[Vytis]

Memel should definitely be lithuanian.
Not so for Prussia. Sadly it was assimilated by germans.Though it could start in 1419 as lith and then be converted by some event later in the game.
As for Kurland it's a tough one. The provice was inhabited by tribes related to lithuanians. But in the game the province also includes the city of Riga which was dominated by germans(archbishop of Riga).I'd suggest both lithuanian and german cultures.It would open interesting possibilities if a player chooses to play as Courland(if I'm not mistaken player has that chance).

 

[unmerged(19088)]

Prussia (eastern "Preussen") should definetely become german sometime during the game, preferably in the end of the 17th or the beginning of the 18th century, that makes the "Brandenburg becomes the Kingdom of Prussia"-event a good opportunity to do so! Königsberg, the capital of Preussen, and later an important city of the German Empire must be German!

Memel should stay Baltic, or get Lithuanian... no doubt in that!

 

[unmerged(15967)]

Originally posted by Vytis
Memel should definitely be lithuanian.
Not so for Prussia. Sadly it was assimilated by germans.Though it could start in 1419 as lith and then be converted by some event later in the game.
As for Kurland it's a tough one. The provice was inhabited by tribes related to lithuanians. But in the game the province also includes the city of Riga which was dominated by germans(archbishop of Riga).I'd suggest both lithuanian and german cultures.It would open interesting possibilities if a player chooses to play as Courland(if I'm not mistaken player has that chance).

Are you suggesting to merge Baltic and Lithunian culture? That could be good, but if we want to keep Baltic as a seperate culture Memel and Kurland definately need to stay Baltic.
So, any good reasons against a merger of Baltic and Lithunian?

 

[Vytis]

Merging baltic and lithuanian cultures is exactly what I'm proposing.It's also here

 

[unmerged(5822)]

Have we then reached an agreement on that Prussia should become German in the BRA->PRU event?

 

[unmerged(15967)]

Originally posted by Onslaught
Have we then reached an agreement on that Prussia should become German in the BRA->PRU event?

I would prefer the inheritance event or even the "Prussia becomes a Polish duchy" event (only for the time it tr´ßriggers at). It should preferably be a ducal Prussia event and the kingdom of Prussia event is a bit late.
Actually the Prussia province could even start out German, according to this map there was a wave of german migration during the 14th century and I have another (non identical) map that shows pretty much the same.

 

[Woreczko]

Originally posted by Freiherr vStein
I would prefer the inheritance event or even the "Prussia becomes a Polish duchy" event (only for the time it tr´ßriggers at). It should preferably be a ducal Prussia event and the kingdom of Prussia event is a bit late.
Actually the Prussia province could even start out German, according to this map there was a wave of german migration during the 14th century and I have another (non identical) map that shows pretty much the same.

Agree on "Prussia becomes a polish duchy". IIRC Vilkouak, main developer of AGC PL thread, was arguing that the last revolt of native Prussians happened during polish-prussian war 1519-1521. I cannot confirm that, but after that date prussian culture was more or less extinct and even most of the peasants spoke in german or polish (immigrants from Masovia).

As for Memel, with map being as it is, it cannot stand for Zmudz/Samogitia because it has no contact with Lithuania province. I treat it rather as a northern part of Prussia, and I think it should also turn german.