Provinces (Iberia)

[unmerged(345)]

well, here we go:
this a tentaive and incomplete list. as my history's grasp is getting rusty feel free to complete it. names with "" should be modified
i have stuck to Harvard's 1/2-3 rule:
B. bishopcies
F. feudal provinces
C. Cities-provinces
O provinces-mil.orders

Navarre:
Montaña (F), Pamplona (C) and Olite (F). north of the pyrinees we should add Ultrapuertos (F), sandwiched between Béarn and Labourd

Galicia:
Mondoñedo (B), Monforte (F) and "Coast" (C, Coruña?)

Castille-leon:
Asturias (F), Santillana (F) and Bizcaya (F)
Leon (C), Burgos (C) and "Rioja" (F)
Zamora (c), valladolid (C), Segovia (C), Sigüenza (F)
Salamance C), Toledo (B), Cuenca (C)
Talavera (O), caceres (C), C. real (O), Murcia (F)
M.Sidonia (F), Sevilla (C), Cordoba (C), Niebla (F)

Granada
Granada (F), Malaga (F), Almeria (F)

Cataluña. 5 provinces
there are many Catalans in this forum so they will know better
IMHO mostly feudal in the North (Olot, Noguera...), Ripoll (B) and cities to the south (barcelona, girona)

Portugal. 6-7 provinces
definitely, I lack knowledge

(goin for shelter...

 

[unmerged(345)]

sorry Aragon (5) and Valencia (4) anyone???

 

[unmerged(8606)]

Some tentative for Catalunya in 1066. As it corresponds to 3 provinces of EU (Catalonia, Girona and Roussillon), this gives 7-8 provinces, so:

Catalunya:
Barcelona, Girona, Osona, Urgell, Pallars, Cerdanya and Rosselló (maybe Besalú as well).

For Aragón I think of Ribagorza and Sobrarbe, but more are needed... any other ideas?.

And, now that you've asked about València this leads us to the possible provinces under muslim control in Iberia in 1066. Some ideas: in the territories that were to be (in the real world, who knows in CK) catalan: Lleida and Tortosa. In the territories that were to be aragonese: Zaragoza and Albarracín. In València, if we follow the taifas kingdoms (correctly for 1066) we found València and Dènia, but more provinces are needed.

Comments, please.

Marc

 

[unmerged(1461)]

Provinces for Portugal

Here is a suggestion for Portugal: province name (main city by that time):
1 - Estremadura (Lisbon)
2 - Minho (Porto)
3 - Trás-os-Montes (Chaves)
4 - Centro Interior(Almeida)
5 - Centro Litoral(Coimbra)
6 - Alentejo (Évora)
7 - Algarve (Silves)

Cheers,

 

[unmerged(8399)]

The classicla division of the Kingdom of Navarra was the 5 merindades (XIV-XV centuries)
Ultrapuertos
Montaña
Estella
Sangüesa
Ribera

 

[unmerged(345)]

well aryaman,
giving navarra 5 provinces (out 900) will be too much
being practical, how about
ultrapuertos
montaña-pamplona
ribera-olite?

alzate

 

[Txini]

I think for Asturias is needed a split between feudal Asturias and the Bishophric of Oviedo

 

[unmerged(345)]

Originally posted by Txini
I think for Asturias is needed a split between feudal Asturias and the Bishophric of Oviedo

not a vested interest on it of course...

 

[unmerged(9119)]

Re: Provinces for Portugal

Originally posted by vasco_da_gama
Here is a suggestion for Portugal: province name (main city by that time):
1 - Estremadura (Lisbon)
2 - Minho (Porto)
3 - Trás-os-Montes (Chaves)
4 - Centro Interior(Almeida)
5 - Centro Litoral(Coimbra)
6 - Alentejo (Évora)
7 - Algarve (Silves)

Cheers,

In Trás-os-Montes the city should be Bragança

And in Centro Interior I don't know a important city, named Almeida.

I don't know here exacly Centro Interior stays ( in the Game ) But probably Guarda as the City

 

[unmerged(9119)]

And in Minho the City should be Guimarães ( The Capital of the County )

After Coimbra became the Capital and the City of Minho should change the name to Porto

 

[Demetrios]

Originally posted by Alzate

Castille-leon:
Asturias (F), Santillana (F) and Bizcaya (F)
Leon (C), Burgos (C) and "Rioja" (F)
Zamora (c), valladolid (C), Segovia (C), Sigüenza (F)
Salamance C), Toledo (B), Cuenca (C)
Talavera (O), caceres (C), C. real (O), Murcia (F)
M.Sidonia (F), Sevilla (C), Cordoba (C), Niebla (F)

Granada
Granada (F), Malaga (F), Almeria (F)

(goin for shelter...

All that for Castilla-Leon in 1066???

They didn't get into Toledo until the 1085, let alone places like Sevilla and Cordoba, which didn't fall until after the Battle of Los Navos de Tolosa in 1212.

As for Granada, it was merely one of a dozen or so petty Muslim states that existed in southern Iberia after the collapse of the Umayyad Caliphate in Cordoba in the 1030s...

 

[unmerged(5206)]

1066 Muslim States in Spain:

Kingdom of Badajoz
Kingdom of Seville
Kingdom of Toldeo (they annexed Valencia in 1065)
Kingdom of Granada
Kingdom of Denia/Murcia
(Republic of?) Cordoba
(Kigndom of?) Albarracin
Kingdom of Zaragoza
Kingdom of Mallorca

All of these could easily be represented on the EU2 map, furthermore Snowball picked a rather good year to start in since a number of the tiny Taifa kingdoms were annexed by the larger kingdoms. There is one exception and that is Albarracin, which is comparable in size to Corsica.

Here's a decent map for the Umayyads & Spain in the 11th century:

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~rs143/umayyad.jpg

Although in 1066-67ish Valencia was annexed to the Kingdom of Toldeo, the Kingdom of Badajoz lost some land to the Kingdom of Seville, the Kingdom of Seville annexed the minor states in the south west and Cadiz, and Leon and Castile were seperate Kingdoms, and the Malaga and Algeciras area was part of the Hammadids of Algeria

 

[unmerged(345)]

Re: Re: Provinces (Iberia)

Originally posted by Demetrios


All that for Castilla-Leon in 1066???

They didn't get into Toledo until the 1085, let alone places like Sevilla and Cordoba, which didn't fall until after the Battle of Los Navos de Tolosa in 1212.

well demetrios, of course you are right
mine was an attempt to help CK developers in charting Christian kingdom's expansion in the XI-XIV centuries, not a 1066 map
i imagine that à la EU, there will be different scenarios, with differente maps and eras.
i guess that at least three eras: 1066, early XIII and early XIVth

 

[unmerged(6788)]

Re: Re: Provinces for Portugal

Originally posted by I_Killed-Kenny
In Trás-os-Montes the city should be Bragança

And in Centro Interior I don't know a important city, named Almeida.

I don't know here exacly Centro Interior stays ( in the Game ) But probably Guarda as the City

You've never heard "Alma até Almeida"?

 

[unmerged(9119)]

Re: Re: Re: Provinces for Portugal

Originally posted by Aranha
You've never heard "Alma até Almeida"?

Nepia, I'm from the big city ( okay cascais )

But Bragança should be because it's more famous, and it still uis the capital of the region ( distrito ) and the last portugues dinasty was the Dinasty of Bragança

 

[unmerged(6063)]

We do not forget Empuries. Along with Urgell, the last independent counties

 

[Duque de Bragança]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Provinces for Portugal

Originally posted by I_Killed-Kenny
Nepia, I'm from the big city ( okay cascais )

But Bragança should be because it's more famous, and it still uis the capital of the region ( distrito ) and the last portugues dinasty was the Dinasty of Bragança

Well, well... Bragança was refounded in 1187 so by the game's start Chaves should be the capital. Could there be some event like "strenghtening the eastern flank against León, new citadel in Bragança" by this time ?

Bragança is obviously more famous

 

[unmerged(8303)]

I hope the CK people make an event trigger to change city names unlike in EU2. That is, assuming there are cities which they're not in HoI..or maybe the provinces are just named for the important city but thats a even bigger mess for the CK timeline as cities are still being founded.