Provinces for released nations

[unmerged(58515)]

I'm sorry if this has already been asked, but is anything known yet about releasing satellites? Specifically, can you decide which provinces to give them?

In Vic1, e.g. if you played as Prussia/Germany, you could grant independence to Poland. However, Poland was hardcoded with the 1919 Versailles borders, which doesn't make much sense for Prussia to do willingly.

It would also be cool to have "release nation X with provinces A,B,C..." as a war goal, but I digress.

 

[Romtos]

I've got similar annoyances with EU3, including not knowing what they'll exactly receive.

 

[Orinsul]

Im going to say what i keep saying so sorry if yourve heard this one before.

An EU3 style peaceterms window with the Core Provinces as the default and you can choose which provinces the new country get with the condition that all non-core provinces must touch an already seletect province, to stop the AI doing weird stuff.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Im going to say what i keep saying so sorry if yourve heard this one before.

An EU3 style peaceterms window with the Core Provinces as the default and you can choose which provinces the new country get with the condition that all non-core provinces must touch an already seletect province, to stop the AI doing weird stuff.

I also think you should be required to release a certain proportion of the nation's cores that you hold for the state to be viable.

 

[rjf101]

I agree. The example of Prussia/Germany wanting to release Poland is a perfect example. With the current hard-coded satellite borders, you get a lot of odd and undesirable situations. There must be a way to choose which provinces to give a satellite, or even a few different options would be good (for example Poland could have 1919 borders, Congress Poland borders, and Congress Poland + Western Galicia).

 

[Nietzsche]

I agree. The example of Prussia/Germany wanting to release Poland is a perfect example. With the current hard-coded satellite borders, you get a lot of odd and undesirable situations. There must be a way to choose which provinces to give a satellite, or even a few different options would be good (for example Poland could have 1919 borders, Congress Poland borders, and Congress Poland + Western Galicia).

The easiest option is merely to make sure all released nations don't receive any of your core territory.

 

[newtype0083]

A problem with choosing specific provinces is that a player could abuse the system to set up satellites who hold a one-province wide strip between the master nation and their enemies. Not very realistic and certainly not enough IRL to prevent an invasion.

 

[Orinsul]

SO?

WHO cares if it leaves open for the player to abuse it?
IF he wants common sense in his world and the story hes writing with the game, then he WONT abuse it.

In pretty much every discussion some fish comes along and says, No Dont Have that feature, some players will abuse it

Thats not an argument, if you care about it, then dont abuse it yourself and if other players do, what does that have to do with you?

 

[Trin Tragula]

It would also be quite easy to make it possible to choose only continuous provinces when picking provinces for your new satelite.
Still some sort of requirement of a common culture or such would be nice as a prerequisite, either that or some built in negative consequences for creating a non-functional state.

 

[unmerged(58515)]

Im going to say what i keep saying so sorry if yourve heard this one before.

An EU3 style peaceterms window with the Core Provinces as the default and you can choose which provinces the new country get with the condition that all non-core provinces must touch an already seletect province, to stop the AI doing weird stuff.

You're right, that would be ideal, I think, together with

I also think you should be required to release a certain proportion of the nation's cores that you hold for the state to be viable.

Also, @Paradox, PLEASE make the province selection for this and peaceterms/war goals graphical, with a
map. How am I supposed to establish an empire with cheklists ffs?`
It makes grabbing land in Russia and China a pain in the rectum.

The easiest option is merely to make sure all released nations don't receive any of your core territory.

That's in fact the easiest, and I'd prefer it to the current situation in Ricky. Otoh since there is no way to give land to your satellites afterwards in V2, I think that would still be quite restrictive. Maybe my satellite is landlocked and I want to make sure they get a seaport? And don't tell me a small strip of land just for access to the sea would be too gamey or abuse, that's precisely what e.g. the Polish Versailles borders were about!

On the whole, I hope the Great Powers will have a lot more options dealing with their satellites / countries within their Sphere of Influence. Annexing huge parts of the world is just not my preferred style, and also doesn't fit in the period I think.

 

[henryjai]

You're right, that would be ideal, I think, together with



Also, @Paradox, PLEASE make the province selection for this and peaceterms/war goals graphical, with a
map. How am I supposed to establish an empire with cheklists ffs?`
It makes grabbing land in Russia and China a pain in the rectum.



That's in fact the easiest, and I'd prefer it to the current situation in Ricky. Otoh since there is no way to give land to your satellites afterwards in V2, I think that would still be quite restrictive. Maybe my satellite is landlocked and I want to make sure they get a seaport? And don't tell me a small strip of land just for access to the sea would be too gamey or abuse, that's precisely what e.g. the Polish Versailles borders were about!

On the whole, I hope the Great Powers will have a lot more options dealing with their satellites / countries within their Sphere of Influence. Annexing huge parts of the world is just not my preferred style, and also doesn't fit in the period I think.

checklist is not a problem, problem is that, it is a pain to select 20 provinces in a peacedeal, thinking that it is a fair deal, and get rejected... and have to select again.

That sort of make things like WC a pain.

 

[Cinéad IV]

On the whole, I hope the Great Powers will have a lot more options dealing with their satellites / countries within their Sphere of Influence. Annexing huge parts of the world is just not my preferred style, and also doesn't fit in the period I think.

This.

I also hope that you can choose the land your satelites get. It's much more realistic than Prussia losing half it's land because it wants some kind of Polish client state between itself and Russia.

 

[unmerged(58515)]

checklist is not a problem, problem is that, it is a pain to select 20 provinces in a peacedeal, thinking that it is a fair deal, and get rejected... and have to select again.

That sort of make things like WC a pain.

Sorry if I was being unclear, but that was precisely what I meant. If it was graphical you could at least just click away on a map without memorizing/looking up (every time) the name of "that province next to Shanghai". All the while making sure you didn't miss any of those you wanted.

 

[henryjai]

Sorry if I was being unclear, but that was precisely what I meant. If it was graphical you could at least just click away on a map without memorizing/looking up (every time) the name of "that province next to Shanghai". All the while making sure you didn't miss any of those you wanted.

and bloody georgetowns :rofl:

 

[von_Manstein11]

SO?

WHO cares if it leaves open for the player to abuse it?
IF he wants common sense in his world and the story hes writing with the game, then he WONT abuse it.

In pretty much every discussion some fish comes along and says, No Dont Have that feature, some players will abuse it

Thats not an argument, if you care about it, then dont abuse it yourself and if other players do, what does that have to do with you?

what about multiplayer? people will conquer large swabs of multi ethnic land with no resemblance of stability and simply release half of a continent as one country so they get the full benefit of having a large amount of core's.

 

[OHgamer]

and bloody georgetowns :rofl:

with Clio we did our utmost to prevent province name duplication, and I think we've actually succeeded in completely avoiding using the same name twice, though one or two might have slipped in.

Granted, we have Cartagena in Spain and Cartagena de Indias in Colombia, and Cordoba in Spain and Cordoba de Argentina in Argentina, but the names will at least appear different, with the "de..." suffix attached to the Latin American towns.

This assumes of course that Paradox did not change any of the province names we developed for Clio, which from what I've seen in screenshots is the case.

 

[henryjai]

glad to hear that, the springfields, georgetowns, are a bit frustrating, fortunately that the two springfields are adjacent so...

 

[Orinsul]

we can assume that Victoria II being on the EU3 engine will have a graphical interface for peace-deals, so double province names and looking up lists is entirely a non-issue

checklist is not a problem, problem is that, it is a pain to select 20 provinces in a peacedeal, thinking that it is a fair deal, and get rejected... and have to select again.
That sort of make things like WC a pain.

Would'nt releasing a nation be automatic? you pick 20 provinces, and they accept it, youre releasing them, if theyre not happy about it then they can spend the next decade in a civil war like with ireland and india and pakistan and all the other countries that have been released less completely than they thought they would be.
They couldnt reject, because you havent yet given them a government to reject anything with.

 

[Lord_Andrew]

Well i would say if you could deside which provinces you would release with a certain satelite, you should only be able the chose the states, and they should all be close to each others

 

[unmerged(58515)]

Well i would say if you could deside which provinces you would release with a certain satelite, you should only be able the chose the states, and they should all be close to each others

Hm... I think that would be too restrictive. How about a rule like "at least 2/3 of the nation's cores, including {X,Y...}" instead? X, Y, etc. being provinces that must be part of the new state. In the example of Poland those could be Warsaw and Cracow, and maybe a third like Torun or Poznan. Additionally you could punish "gamey" behaviour by increasing militancy and consciousness of POPs belonging to the respective union tag and living in one of its cores. E.g. if Poland had Lwow as one of its cores and Poland is created without it, Polish POPs there could be angered.
Note that this could also be used a a political weapon: create a Polish state, e.g. as Russia, and watch all hell break loose in Prussia and Austria as compensation.


Additionally, POPs might emigrate to "their" nation state if depending on their political ideology/consciousness.