Province & border correction and improvement thread.
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Except that those straight lines were by and large meaningless fiction that just looked easy to define (on paper) to kings of the era. In practice, no one actually agreed where those straight lines, and the "border" was a fuzzy zone somewhere between the two opposite claims, where which settlement was on what side was an open question. See for example how the "Straight line" of the Quebec-Vermont-New York border had to actually be shifted and made (slightly) squiggly to accomodate a fort the Americans had started to build in Canada.
(Even actual squiggly line which followed a specific landmark saw extensive fighting and negociation trying to settle WHAT the landmark actually was.
It's perfectly appropriate to the era to represent the border as a uncertain, hazy, squiggling line somewhere in the vicinity of the actual border.
Please be aware that provinces are defined primarily for gamebalance purposes. If they coincide with historical borders, then that is a bonus.
And no, Idre should always be in Dalarna!! / its sacred soil and should always be part of the most important part of the world..
So why don't you use hexes for the greater balance. It wouldn't be that far from the current borders.
MEIOU and D&T mod for EU3 turned out to have a lot greater balance than vanilla though they have realistic borders and a new map.
Either way in the most cases you wouldn't even make new connections between provinces by just polishing the map, e.g. by making Istria to be ON the peninsula not next to it, or making the HRE members actually look like the states IRL, or by placing the capitals in their correct places and so on.
Moving the capital to the "right" place would be an annoying chore that would bring zero to the game and consume valuable time that could be used to actually handle relevant issues, though.
I wish Guyenne's port would be inside the estuary, not on the Atlantic
From the screenshot it looks like the new navy sprite for ship at port could fit?I hope that port can be given some love like London, or Hamburg in EU3, or HOI3:
Please be aware that provinces are defined primarily for gamebalance purposes. If they coincide with historical borders, then that is a bonus.
And no, Idre should always be in Dalarna!! / its sacred soil and should always be part of the most important part of the world..
I'm from Idre, and I say we will have nothing to do with the shortlegged inbreds in Dalarna! We belong to Härjedalen, and if it wasn't for the brutal conquest of Daniel Buskovius 1644, we still would!
Also, Älvdalen should have its own culture group.
The line might not be perfectly straight, but zoomed out they look straight on a map. EU4 is like a map. Straight lines would improve historical immersion.
I am happy with the abstraction in the borders of EU.
Close to my home things were really different from the EU map, yet the overall effect is not too bad, and accuracy would have cluttered the map:
In reality there was Holland, Utrecht, Gelre, then to the North a second piece of Utrecht (Overijssel and Drenthe), with Groningen in the tip of the Utrecht territory, and to the North of that a decentralised Friesland, without sovereign (every quarter ruled itself).
Yet Groningen was de facto independent of Utrecht, and was dealing a lot with the Frisian lands, becoming even some sort of a Land Lord.
So a province of Frisia with Groningen as capital is not too far from the truth, and the Utrecht part between Gelre and Frisia would clutter the area.
Also EU made the County of East-Frisia disappear between Frisia and Oldenburg, even though it was once (around 1510) reaching from (and including) Groningen to the Weser.
Close to my home things were really different from the EU map, yet the overall effect is not too bad, and accuracy would have cluttered the map:
In reality there was Holland, Utrecht, Gelre, then to the North a second piece of Utrecht (Overijssel and Drenthe), with Groningen in the tip of the Utrecht territory, and to the North of that a decentralised Friesland, without sovereign (every quarter ruled itself).
Yet Groningen was de facto independent of Utrecht, and was dealing a lot with the Frisian lands, becoming even some sort of a Land Lord.
So a province of Frisia with Groningen as capital is not too far from the truth, and the Utrecht part between Gelre and Frisia would clutter the area.
Also EU made the County of East-Frisia disappear between Frisia and Oldenburg, even though it was once (around 1510) reaching from (and including) Groningen to the Weser.
Given that many if not most of those straight lines existed only for the later half of the timeline, and in many cases, very late in the timeline (and, past the Appalaches, in many case the straight-line borders were drawn out of timeline altogether), I fail to see where's the historical immersion. For the vast majority of the game these provinces represent the territory of native tribes, not colonies that may or may not even come into existence.
Moreover, as I already said, those straight lines were theoretical, and meaningless in practice since no one knew
Moreover, you say the border would necessarily have been a line. Why?
Borders in North America are not always lines. Why couldn't the line have been drawn at the Roanoke River between Virgina and Carolina? That's just as historically plausible as a straight line. After all, pretty much all the other borders of Virginia were drawn along natural lines. What magically ensure that this one would be drawn as a straight line when literally anyone could have colonized it, and defined the border according to how they like to draw them?
Lines are ugly, in no particular way historical, and it breaks immersion just as much by forcing us to respect boundaries that won't exist for a hundred years yet in another timeline (the real one, of course).
Yes I Agree, but I Agree also with Marco Dandolo eheh
Please make a proper istrian province, different from Divine Wind
Actually, the only thing I'm really curious about is whether the province borders are still subject to change at all. Are you using the same province setup from Divine Wind (as seen in the screenshots), or will some/all provinces be altered? I'm not interested in arguing about accuracy; the provinces are drawn the way they're drawn for balance reasons and that's fine by me. I'm just wondering if the new/different mechanics of EUIV will require border changes. And if so, any hint as to what those changes might be?
Agree.
Bält Sound is clearly swedish, (a quick search showed only forum.paradoxplaza.com or .se). Should be either hisorical, local or english.
Geografically the northen part is a part of kattegat, and the southern a part of the baltic sea. (Sealand-Funen is the divide between the baltic and kattegat).
Since "Kattegat, Sound and Belts" is a somewhere used as a group, that is already (thou incorrect)((in game)) seperated into kattegat and Sound it should be called "the Belts" or "Bæltene", and at the same time be released from its baltic part.
For updating provinces, the steadiest borders of Europe 1444-1776 by intervals of 10 years here are submitted. Perhaps Paradoxes will take into account it.
Don't worry. If it persists until launch then it will be the first thing that I edit.
Please be aware that provinces are defined primarily for gamebalance purposes. If they coincide with historical borders, then that is a bonus.
And no, Idre should always be in Dalarna!! / its sacred soil and should always be part of the most important part of the world..
Would expanding the Istria province to cover Istria change much with regards to game balance? As far as I know the only possible difference would be travel time.
Yes thank you. This has been a pet peeve of mine since DW came out.
In see no reason not to fix it. Its like Having a province named London outside paris it doesnt make sense and doesnt hurt or change gameplay to fix it.
Also ive said this before but just use the MEIOU map and this would be the most epic game ever.
When did EU get game balance? I hadn't noticed that, say, Bremen, was balanced against, say, France.
And the reason that European countries generally have 4x as many provinces as Asian/African countries of similar population and size is game balance? I thought it was that it would take a prohibitive amount of time to represent Asia and Africa at the level of detail that Europe is represented.
Please please please make a gap between Memel and Kurland, so that the Teutonic order's two halves (the earlier territories of Brothers of the Cross and Brothers of the Sword) do not have a land connection when not owning Samogitia! The struggle for Samogitian lands was an important aspect of the history of the region and I always find it a shame when Paradox ignores this just because Lithuania never had a well-developed Baltic Sea port in Samogitia.