Protip: The best possible lance to use at all times

[Xavori]

Campaign wise this is dubious mainly because some missions require speed and/or jumps to successfully complete.

I wish the mission descriptions were a little more informative on the kind of Mechs required - I mean I've got the idea that convoy raids work best with medium / fast mechs but some "suggested loadout" in the missions would be very helpful for the new ones.

Just FYI, that lance you see in my video completed the hardest time-locked mission where you are required to take down 3 spread out targets before your dropships arrive and get shot down (it's also really bad writing as I kept wondering why they launched the dropships prior to taking down the planets defenses...). So nope, that lance design is not dubious. In fact, in another mission, having 2 LRM boats that can split target actually was pretty key in completing the mission because I was able to hit all the little mechs and keep them attacking me, not the stuff I was defending.

LRMs are only good until you have really high morale buffs. I've put about 40 hours into this game, am post-campaign, and have a lance of 4 assaults.

Each of my assaults can core any other assault in one precision shot. And as you get morale for killing mechs this enables me to do non stop precision shots, killing 4 assaults a turn. It has completely trivialized every mission I do.

I start missions maxxed morale already. And while I'm sure having mechs that can mount enough pinpoint damage is great, that doesn't really help much before you get to owning 4 assaults. My lance design, tho, worked literally the entire campaign. I know this because I've completed everything except the final mission which I'm putting off until I finish training up a second lance of pilots that are going to be identical skill-wise to my main.

You went up against a few heavies with 25/50% armor using tooled up assaults armed with +++ weapons. And you took them on in two waves. Plus you abused the morale called shots clutch designed for newbies.

Come back when you go against AI with double tonnage in full armor all at the same time while using mostly stock loadout.

Uh? What?

I had one assault, the Highlander. The 2x Orions and the Catapult are heavies. That's all I had.

And I went up against significantly more tonnage than I brought or did you not notice all the weights of the AI stuff?

Lastly, I don't ever fight stupid by charging into the enemy trying to prove...uh...actually, I have no idea what the hell you were talking about in your last line. You have a problem with the fact I used maneuvers and sensors to allow myself localized advantages even tho overall I was outnumbered? Honestly, I'm glad I'd never have to follow you into battle.

 

[Xavori]

Yeah so far the end game is very lacking. It's basically just endless 4 vs 8 assaults-only.

There's no difficulty as I'm one-shotting their mechs while they're scratching my paint with their janky builds like 1x large laser, 1x PPC, 1x AC5, 1x LRM 1xSRM.

Those "janky builds" are stock. I've never really understood why the tabletop designers made such bad mechs the default design for pretty much every chassis. I mean, I get the dice roll weapons and ridiculously short ranges on everything because you're making a game, not trying to mirror real world weapon systems, but building bad mechs as stock makes no sense at all.

 

[Maxzero]

Those "janky builds" are stock. I've never really understood why the tabletop designers made such bad mechs the default design for pretty much every chassis. I mean, I get the dice roll weapons and ridiculously short ranges on everything because you're making a game, not trying to mirror real world weapon systems, but building bad mechs as stock makes no sense at all.

My favourite is storing ammo in the torso (either central or side). Just such a bad idea.

 

[Lt Loco]

I run one assault brawler (2xAC20 Atlas, will swap to King Crab when I get one), one heavy brawler (Orion, max SRM+medium laser, AC10), one LRMboat assault, and one Grasshopper.

LRM boat sets up unstable on three enemies, Orion knocks them down, Atlas cores the assaults, Grasshopper completes mission objectives and kills up to heavy mechs with precise back shots. Everyone has JJ, nearly everyone has breaching shot (Grasshopper would be pointless).

After finishing the campaign, I'm debating certain house rules to make the game harder.
- Ironman
- Stock-Only
- Losing CT means Scrap Mech
- Each Mech has Only One Pilot
- No Special Weapons (+++)

 

[BunglingLummox]

My favourite is storing ammo in the torso (either central or side). Just such a bad idea.

The side torso is my favourite place for ammo, because proper angling makes it, in my opinion, one of the safest places on the mech. The side torso is entirely shielded from the opposite side, while also being relatively safe on the near-side, at least until the arm falls off. And unlike centre torso, it doesn't core the mech if it does go boom.

 

[Xavori]

My favourite is storing ammo in the torso (either central or side). Just such a bad idea.

Ya. Everyone knows ammo goes in the feet which if you did it on a 'real' mech would mean you'd have to come up with some kind of feeder mechanism that could move that ammo all the way from the toes, through lots of different kinds of joints, and into the arms or side torso where the guns actually are

I run one assault brawler (2xAC20 Atlas, will swap to King Crab when I get one), one heavy brawler (Orion, max SRM+medium laser, AC10), one LRMboat assault, and one Grasshopper.

LRM boat sets up unstable on three enemies, Orion knocks them down, Atlas cores the assaults, Grasshopper completes mission objectives and kills up to heavy mechs with precise back shots. Everyone has JJ, nearly everyone has breaching shot (Grasshopper would be pointless).

After finishing the campaign, I'm debating certain house rules to make the game harder.
- Ironman
- Stock-Only
- Losing CT means Scrap Mech
- Each Mech has Only One Pilot
- No Special Weapons (+++)

-I've kinda ended up doing Ironman. Not because I set that rule up, but because when a single mission takes 20-30 minutes, I'd rather just move on than reload and try again for perfect.

-Stock Only would make me cry. I cannot handle playing stupid, and that begins with pre-mission planning. And there is little in BT that is moar stoopider than stock mech design.

-I haven't actually lost a mech to CT kill yet. It was almost always pilot going splat which is why Dekker is not among my crew anymore. I just play too carefully for that. (you can see that in the video I posted where I'm practically always checking not just where I'm thinking of moving, but all over the place before I actually move)

-That'd be nearly impossible in the early game as you don't have enough mechs. In the later game, it wouldn't be a challenge at all except for getting enough +++ weapons which...

-This would be the only challenge in single-pilot-per-mech, so if you're not going to use them, then late game that mech thing doesn't matter. I also suspect the effect would be minimal as the advantages they give you are pretty minimal, and in some cases, pointless (the exception being +++ cockpit mods which I would sorely miss)

 

[Lt Loco]

On the whole, I'd probably not be able to stick with Stock-Only as well. I love my jump jets too much, and probably would eventually limit my tonnage drop (4/5, maybe 4.5/5 drop weight) instead.

I have only lost a couple mechs to CT blowout that I intentionally sacrificed, the one that comes to mind is my commander-piloted Dragon (what a pile of trash) on "Served Cold" which ended up being bait for multiple rounds. It had 6 CT strength left, but a full right torso and arm equipped with an AC20. I risked the death because I was under-tonned on the mission and it gave my vindicator pilots (no PPC, all medium and small lasers it can handle) time to get around behind and assassinate with laser barrages.

I actually think the "Neuro-linked Pilots" (Each Mech only has one pilot) would make for an interesting challenge, especially economically, but it would also make it worthwhile to train up multiple pilots and multiple mechs, rather than just bringing the same 4 mechs with a mix of spare pilots. It's also more lore-friendly than the current system, though that's not really why I'm doing it. It's all for the challenge, in the long run.

This would be the only challenge in single-pilot-per-mech, so if you're not going to use them, then late game that mech thing doesn't matter. I also suspect the effect would be minimal as the advantages they give you are pretty minimal, and in some cases, pointless (the exception being +++ cockpit mods which I would sorely miss)

I would argue that +++ missiles are hilariously broken. SRM6s with 72 damage volleys for only 3 tons. Double stab damage LRMs. There are also other weapons that gain much from their "special manufacturers" - low sized ACs get the same stability boosts that a full scale AC20 does, for example

 

[CarpeMortis]

For mechs: 2xLRM boats and 2x splat brawlers (ie. as many SRM's as possible). You want +stability damage weapons.

For your pilots: 2 Lancers and 2 Strikers.

I came to a very similar build early on my self, and have just been upgrading it since. Though with a slight mod in my Brawlers.

The stock load out of the CN9-A you get early on is redundant given the load outs of your starting mech. BUT it does have 3 Missile slots, and you dont' start with an LRM boat... So I slapped 3 LRM 10s in there and never looked back. In an attempt to make my SHD more punchy, I striped all the weapons and replaced them with SRMS and armor. Now the splat/indirect combo started to shine, so I picked up another CN9-A to LRM boat, and modded a HBK-4G to have only an +Acc AC/20 full armor and JJ.

Now I've replaced all but the HBK, and and I'm working on that too.

 

[Maxzero]

The side torso is my favourite place for ammo, because proper angling makes it, in my opinion, one of the safest places on the mech. The side torso is entirely shielded from the opposite side, while also being relatively safe on the near-side, at least until the arm falls off. And unlike centre torso, it doesn't core the mech if it does go boom.

Yeah and if it blows you lose a torso and a arm. You can do the same positioning trick but put them in your arms so even it does blow you don't lose your torso as well. Putting them in your legs is best because the AI never hits your legs unless coming from the side.

 

[BunglingLummox]

Yeah and if it blows you lose a torso and a arm. You can do the same positioning trick but put them in your arms so even it does blow you don't lose your torso as well. Putting them in your legs is best because the AI never hits your legs unless coming from the side.

I know, but I *still* lose the arm if the arm goes, the arm is squishier, and I always put the ammo and the weapon in the same side, so that gun's not firing any more regardless of which part explodes. Ammo is very much a matter of personal preference.

 

[Maxzero]

I know, but I *still* lose the arm if the arm goes, the arm is squishier, and I always put the ammo and the weapon in the same side, so that gun's not firing any more regardless of which part explodes. Ammo is very much a matter of personal preference.

But your legs are even more heavily armoured, don't get targetted and if your are using 2 tons of ammo you split them so both legs need to be blown off for you to stop shooting.

Currently 58 hours into the game and on the last campaign mission. Have not even had a leg go red yet. Of course I saw Kamea in her Atlas II almost lose me a mission when her ammo in the left torso exploded.

To be fair I have only lost 2 arms and 1 torso in total so I don't take damage in general.

 

[BunglingLummox]

Snip.

I could point out that falling over is much, much worse than a simple pilot wound, but I have no further desire to argue the point with you. My experience has clearly been different to yours. Now if you don't mind, I'm getting on with my evening. I am unwatching this thread. Goodnight.

 

[Malek Deneith]

Those "janky builds" are stock. I've never really understood why the tabletop designers made such bad mechs the default design for pretty much every chassis. I mean, I get the dice roll weapons and ridiculously short ranges on everything because you're making a game, not trying to mirror real world weapon systems, but building bad mechs as stock makes no sense at all.

Because, believe it or not, it makes for a better game. Once you start optimizing things, in pretty much any game, you end up with "one build to rule them all", as you did with your lance setup presented here. Now there are people who'll enjoy that kind of thing, and that's fine, but I imagine majority of players simply... don't care about that. For myself at least I know I'd went with the "best" setup. I prefer to go with my own, sometimes janky and not nearly as efficient builds, and hell - I'll probably do a "stock only" run sometime in the future. Because that's more fun for me.

 

[Rabid]

i think everyone knows by now how good LRM are, its pretty obvious especially with max range and indirect fire, but splat front line?

you want to add extra armor sandblasting and extra knockdown? Why?

Guess you've never 2 shot a mech with call support 2 ac/20 into CT or almost anything else.

The only single target damage capable of actually punching through armor and mechs you have is from call shots (lol)

Turns out if you knock down enemy mechs constantly you get a lot of called shots, your LRM boats get a mech to 100 instability and your frontliners with SRMs poke them down and then blow the crap out of them with their gigantic alpha strikes. Yeah you can run with AC20s but a simple 4xML, 4xSRM6 setup does nearly 300 damage for about 20 tons, 2xAC20 with ammo will run you into the ~30-35T region while putting out less damage.

If you start adding the silly weapon upgrades into the mix it's not even close, MLs, LRMs and SRMs benefit so much more from these than the other weapons do.

Because, believe it or not, it makes for a better game. Once you start optimizing things, in pretty much any game, you end up with "one build to rule them all", as you did with your lance setup presented here. Now there are people who'll enjoy that kind of thing, and that's fine, but I imagine majority of players simply... don't care about that. For myself at least I know I'd went with the "best" setup. I prefer to go with my own, sometimes janky and not nearly as efficient builds, and hell - I'll probably do a "stock only" run sometime in the future. Because that's more fun for me.

I'd really prefer that the weapons were balanced so that there aren't actively detrimental choices such as LLs and LRM10s. I don't mind most of the default mechs being designed to be flexible, I do mind them being ineffective by design (because they're designed to use weapons which are objectively worse choices than others)

 

[Lt Loco]

Yeah you can run with AC20s but a simple 4xML, 4xSRM6 setup does nearly 300 damage for about 20 tons, 2xAC20 with ammo will run you into the ~30-35T region while putting out less damage.

1) That's more heat usage - 88 heat to be specific (4x10+4x12) as compared to 50.
2) Two AC20s can core any mech through any amount of armor with a called shot - so damage doesn't matter.

Now, if you're running with SRM6+++, you deal stupid amounts of damage - but you can use plain AC20s for the same effect.

 

[Xavori]

I run one assault brawler (2xAC20 Atlas, will swap to King Crab when I get one), one heavy brawler (Orion, max SRM+medium laser, AC10), one LRMboat assault, and one Grasshopper.

LRM boat sets up unstable on three enemies, Orion knocks them down, Atlas cores the assaults, Grasshopper completes mission objectives and kills up to heavy mechs with precise back shots. Everyone has JJ, nearly everyone has breaching shot (Grasshopper would be pointless).

After finishing the campaign, I'm debating certain house rules to make the game harder.
- Ironman
- Stock-Only
- Losing CT means Scrap Mech
- Each Mech has Only One Pilot
- No Special Weapons (+++)

So I was thinking about this post while working out this afternoon (because I'm out of shape and oxygen deprivation leads to maximum creativity), and I have a suggestion for you.

1. Ironman
2. Dekker must take part in every mission.
3. If Dekker dies, your campaign ends, and you must start over from the beginning.

Good luck

 

[Lt Loco]

So I was thinking about this post while working out this afternoon (because I'm out of shape and oxygen deprivation leads to maximum creativity), and I have a suggestion for you.

1. Ironman
2. Dekker must take part in every mission.
3. If Dekker dies, your campaign ends, and you must start over from the beginning.

Good luck

You know, while some people seem to think Dekker has a curse, he has the highest kill/mission of any of my pilots. Took him almost all the way to the end of the campaign, though the skills I picked for him were... sub-optimal. He even was my backstabber pilot - first ML/SL Vindicator, eventually up to the Grasshopper. Just gotta keep him moving, and know how to use vigilance. (He's still alive, I just don't use him anymore)

I actually think I'm going to end up going:
- Ironman
- Losing CT means scrap mech
- Each mech gets only one pilot
- No special weapons
- CAPTAIN FALCON CHALLENGE: Commander must only use melee attacks to deal damage, and must be on every mission unless wounded. Might make it "every mission", though with the One Pilot Per Mech, it might functionally end up that way.

Alternative to the Captain Falcon Challenge is the Blackjack Challenge. Your main character must pilot the Blackjack in every mission.

 

[Booo]

1) That's more heat usage - 88 heat to be specific (4x10+4x12) as compared to 50.
2) Two AC20s can core any mech through any amount of armor with a called shot - so damage doesn't matter.

Now, if you're running with SRM6+++, you deal stupid amounts of damage - but you can use plain AC20s for the same effect.

Is 2xAC/20 really enough to core any mech on their own? The smallest assault can have up to 250 CT armor, so I don't see how that'd happen.

And to go with the rest of the topic. How do people feel about SRM4 vs SRM6? The difference is such that 4xSRM4+4 heat sinks comes in at 20 heat, whereas 4xSRM6 comes with 50% more missiles but a whooping 56 heat, both at the same tonnage. There's a big opportunity cost here where the difference in heat creation can be spent on stuff like AC/20 or medium lasers.

 

[Lt Loco]

Is 2xAC/20 really enough to core any mech on their own? The smallest assault can have up to 250 CT armor, so I don't see how that'd happen.

1) Stock mechs usually aren't at max armor. I misspoke saying 'any mech, any amount of armor'.
2) In order to get called shots, usually you use upwards of 25 LRMs to knock them down, usually more to "guarantee" the knockdown. Missiles tend to inflict torso damages more than arm or leg when fired indirectly, which is often the case with fragile lrmboats. After this knockdown-softening action from the missiles, most torsos will get below the 240 damage AC20+++ threshold.

 

[Xavori]

Is 2xAC/20 really enough to core any mech on their own? The smallest assault can have up to 250 CT armor, so I don't see how that'd happen.

And to go with the rest of the topic. How do people feel about SRM4 vs SRM6? The difference is such that 4xSRM4+4 heat sinks comes in at 20 heat, whereas 4xSRM6 comes with 50% more missiles but a whooping 56 heat, both at the same tonnage. There's a big opportunity cost here where the difference in heat creation can be spent on stuff like AC/20 or medium lasers.

Managing heat is really easy when you're using tonnage-efficient weapons like SRM's, so it really never comes up in a fight, especially if you build splat mechs without energy weapons.