Protestantism, Anglican, and Reformed Changes Needed

[EastonAugustus]

With the focus on the Baltic States for the next expansion, I was hoping that paradox could review the relationship between Reformed, Anglican Protestant (Lutheran) churches in the Game.

1) It always sickens me when I see reformed nations in the HRE siding with the Catholic League as that would have never occurred. Although there was some tension between Lutherans and Calvinists during the Reformation, the Calvinists always sided with other Protestants regarding conflicts within the HRE against Austria (i.e. The winter King, Brandenburg, and the Calvinist State of Transylvania all attacked Austria). Calvinists should always side with the Protestant alliance in the league war.

2) States like Brandenburg/Prussia should be represented as both Protestant and Reformed in the vein of the Tengri Nations having a primary and a secondary religion. Every Prussian monarch was Reformed, yet their subjects were generally all Protestant (Lutheran), which led to the establishment of the Prussian Union of Churches. The Prussian Union combined both Lutheran and Reformed Churches into a single church.

3) Anglicans should have significant opinion buffs with both Reformed and Protestants. The Anglican Church was heavily influenced by both Lutherans and Calvinists and representatives of the Anglican Church attended and agreed to the Synod of Dort (one of the largest Synods of the Reformed Religion).

4) If the Protestants win the league war, Reformed nations should maintain the ability to be electors and become emperors.

 

[Elu Thingol]

With the focus on the Baltic States for the next expansion, I was hoping that paradox could review the relationship between Reformed, Anglican Protestant (Lutheran) churches in the Game.

1) It always sickens me when I see reformed nations in the HRE siding with the Catholic League as that would have never occurred. Although there was some tension between Lutherans and Calvinists during the Reformation, the Calvinists always sided with other Protestants regarding conflicts within the HRE against Austria (i.e. The winter King, Brandenburg, and the Calvinist State of Transylvania all attacked Austria). Calvinists should always side with the Protestant alliance in the league war.

2) States like Brandenburg/Prussia should be represented as both Protestant and Reformed in the vein of the Tengri Nations having a primary and a secondary religion. Every Prussian monarch was Reformed, yet their subjects were generally all Protestant (Lutheran), which led to the establishment of the Prussian Union of Churches. The Prussian Union combined both Lutheran and Reformed Churches into a single church.

3) Anglicans should have significant opinion buffs with both Reformed and Protestants. The Anglican Church was heavily influenced by both Lutherans and Calvinists and representatives of the Anglican Church attended and agreed to the Synod of Dort (one of the largest Synods of the Reformed Religion).

4) If the Protestants win the league war, Reformed nations should maintain the ability to be electors and become emperors.

My 5 cents:

1) I think that this i tricky, as i both agree that it looks afuly strange, but, i also think that it would be a bit to much of railroading to always have the historical outcome. But some serioius balancing towards making reformed opose the catholic side sure would be good.

2) Would be cool.

3) Total agree.

4) Yes, and give the Hussites the same treatment.

 

[Romanix90]

Like @Elu Thingol said also buff a little bit Hussite.

 

[YellowPress]

With the focus on the Baltic States for the next expansion, I was hoping that paradox could review the relationship between Reformed, Anglican Protestant (Lutheran) churches in the Game.

1) It always sickens me when I see reformed nations in the HRE siding with the Catholic League as that would have never occurred. Although there was some tension between Lutherans and Calvinists during the Reformation, the Calvinists always sided with other Protestants regarding conflicts within the HRE against Austria (i.e. The winter King, Brandenburg, and the Calvinist State of Transylvania all attacked Austria). Calvinists should always side with the Protestant alliance in the league war.

Calvinist hesse sided with imperials, saxony and Brandenburg were at various times with imperials in 30years war as it wasn't just a religious war but wider politics to

2) States like Brandenburg/Prussia should be represented as both Protestant and Reformed in the vein of the Tengri Nations having a primary and a secondary religion. Every Prussian monarch was Reformed, yet their subjects were generally all Protestant (Lutheran), which led to the establishment of the Prussian Union of Churches. The Prussian Union combined both Lutheran and Reformed Churches into a single church.

Would this be a Protestant only thing or a prussia only thing? Prussia could get fixed by having rulers become Calvinist whilst the state is Protestant giving a bonus to tolerance of heretics

3) Anglicans should have significant opinion buffs with both Reformed and Protestants. The Anglican Church was heavily influenced by both Lutherans and Calvinists and representatives of the Anglican Church attended and agreed to the Synod of Dort (one of the largest Synods of the Reformed Religion).

An event chain would be better, as there might ne mutual suspicion or valorisation of brothers in arms against popery

4) If the Protestants win the league war, Reformed nations should maintain the ability to be electors and become emperors.

This is an imperial incident already, if lutherans win they might not be happy on an anabaptist emperor

 

[Elu Thingol]

Calvinist hesse sided with imperials, saxony and Brandenburg were at various times with imperials in 30years war as it wasn't just a religious war but wider politics to

Would this be a Protestant only thing or a prussia only thing? Prussia could get fixed by having rulers become Calvinist whilst the state is Protestant giving a bonus to tolerance of heretics

An event chain would be better, as there might ne mutual suspicion or valorisation of brothers in arms against popery

This is an imperial incident already, if lutherans win they might not be happy on an anabaptist emperor

Totaly agree with you on the Calvinist thing, they shouldnt be "locked" into the protestant camp, but I agree with the OP that they should be more likley to side against the emperor/catholics. It would have been realy cool if there some mechanism better showing the width among calvinists, wich could also affect how they behave diplomaticly.

I for one feels that the duality thing should be Prussian only.

Well, i guess that an event chain could improve/decrease it, but generaly the Anglicans should be more close to the Lutherans,

Regarding the Leuage, i think the coolest thing would be something like the Council of Trent (but a working one), so that the outcome of the peace actualy differ, for example letting reformed/hussites/anglicans becoming emperors. But since this probably wont come, i feel that the easiest fix is to let Hussites and Reformed becoming leaders, and after a sucsesfull war becoming emperors. (If Anglicans, it's should come as an incident for an protesant/reformed empire).

 

[EastonAugustus]

Calvinists aren't Anabaptists. Lutherans (Protestants), Calvinists (Reformed), and Catholics persecuted the Anabaptists who aren't really represented in the game sadly.

 

[namewhichisnottakenyet]

I'd like some event, event chain, imperial incident, decision or what have you which enables the player to change the HRE rules after the league war. It doesn't need to be common unless triggered by the player, I'd even be fine with a somewhat gamey option which only a player can reliably pull off, but I dislike that catholic or protestant are the only two realistic outcomes. That's actually one of the main reasons why I very rarely bother playing with another branch if Christianity other than Protestantism.

I've almost single-handedly won the league war against the catholics as hussite Bohemia, just to lose my electorship andbe instantly ostracized by the new emperor I had just helped to put on the throne. I intervened and massively influenced the league war as Byzantium because I was the real Roman Empire and wanted to prove it to the German pretenders, but an orthodox emperor was still unthinkable to them after the war. I kind of just gave up and picked on France while it was distracted with the league war while playing as anglican England despite my "become Emperor of the HRE" mission because I knew that it was essentially impossible for me to actually get elected without converting.

So a few ideas I have to change the HRE mechanics are:

- in the event of a protestant victory, give other branches of Christianity except Catholicism a moderate negative for AI electors' election reasons, but don't make them entirely ineligible. Also, only Catholic electors lose their title after a protestant victory.
- if the winning side's main contributor (MC) was not of the winning faith, give the MC an event right after the conclusion of the war to fire an imperial incident in which they demand religious peace in the Empire, rather than one religion's domination. If the new emperor declines, new religious leagues form, one fighting for the new official faith, and the other one for the MC's faith.
- Once the Center of Revolution forms (alternatively: once the revolution spreads to at least 1% of all European provinces), immediately declare religious peace in the Empire, unless it has reformed to the point of Erbmonarchie already. This represents reactionaries in all HRE monarchies banding together to fight the Revolution.
- Once at least one nation within the HRE becomes revolutionary, start a new league war with a monarchist vs. a republican side. If the monarchists win, the HRE remains the same, but with religious peace replacing the official faith. If the republicans win, any christian republics can now become President of the German (Central European?) Confederation replacing the HRE with largely the same mechanics, but different flavor texts. If neither side wins, the HRE becomes the Holy Roman Confederacy and every Christian ruler irrespective of their government form can become its President, but maybe this permanently locks the centralization branch.

 

[Ttrgw]

One feature that isn't needed is modifier by swapping aspect.
The advantage of the protestant is that once the aspect is set, it can be left until it is needed. Requiring church action every two or three years, as Anglicans do, can be a hindrance to thought.