Went to war with an empire with no vassalize option available, nor is one available on the diplomacy screen - but protectorate is an option for both, why is this?
Protectorate Only?
- Thread starter Adrik Thorsen
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I'm confused about this too, it seems random but I think it's about your empires power vs theres. =s
It's not power, it's technology. Empires with a radically lower tech level can't be vassalized, only made into protectorates.
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Protectorate is a special status for vassalized technologically disadvantaged states. They cannot be incorporated into your empire (a true vassal with a complete technological mismatch would be very difficult to incorporate into a multi-planet empire), will not join in your wars (though are protected by your guarantee), and receive 80% reduced tech costs (I believe that is the current number). In return, your receive .5 influence per month for being their suzerain (one of the only ways to improve influence gain), and they automatically are converted into a vassal upon researching 40% of your technologies. Any civ whose tech is "pathetic" in comparison to yours will be destined for protectorate status under your rule.
The in-game tooltip for protectorate states in the diplomacy screen is a little dude kneeling, like a vassal, but holding a spear. That tooltip would also have given you the majority of this information, but the explanation of protectorate formation is a mechanic poorly described in-game.
The mechanics of protectorates may well change in the future -- we've already seen a boost to the tech discount to protectorates, as they generally are small and thus generate little tech, and would often never catch up. Depending on the protectorate's size and position, it may take only a few decades to convert into a vassal, or it might take hundreds of years.
The in-game tooltip for protectorate states in the diplomacy screen is a little dude kneeling, like a vassal, but holding a spear. That tooltip would also have given you the majority of this information, but the explanation of protectorate formation is a mechanic poorly described in-game.
The mechanics of protectorates may well change in the future -- we've already seen a boost to the tech discount to protectorates, as they generally are small and thus generate little tech, and would often never catch up. Depending on the protectorate's size and position, it may take only a few decades to convert into a vassal, or it might take hundreds of years.
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It would be nice to see somehow at how many percent the protectorate is...
Also i dont think that i ever got one into vasall state... it seems like they never do enough Research :-/
Also i dont think that i ever got one into vasall state... it seems like they never do enough Research :-/
I've seen it happen, but they need to have room to expand. If they pop up as a single-planet state surrounded by more mature empires on every side, with no chance to settle a second world or grab territory, it's nearly impossible.
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In the soon to be released 1.4 patch it is going to be 95% tech cost reduction.
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One of the other advantages of protectorates is that they /are/ able to colonize unlike true vassals who aren't
I threw the single planet two of my developed systems an d they vassalized about 5 years later.
Protectorates bring:
1 Influence per Month. That usually makes them worth it.
They gain a massive (80% in 1.3, 95% in 1.4) Tech Cost reduction for anything thier Overlord has
They can not be integrated, but while being a protecterate the Integration Lockout cools down.
They are not drawn into wars of thier Overlord (however they join on going up to Vassals).
A lot of Treaties (inlducing Reserach Agreement) are locked out too.
1 Influence per Month. That usually makes them worth it.
They gain a massive (80% in 1.3, 95% in 1.4) Tech Cost reduction for anything thier Overlord has
They can not be integrated, but while being a protecterate the Integration Lockout cools down.
They are not drawn into wars of thier Overlord (however they join on going up to Vassals).
A lot of Treaties (inlducing Reserach Agreement) are locked out too.
Am I the only person who wants their protectorates to never catch up? That influence boost is really sweet to have, especially- amusingly- when your game is to liberate, vassalize, and integrate because the process of integration is costly. I know what things I want to integrate and what things I want to just be my influence battery for all eternity.
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it is a shit for the protectors, why should i waste 1 influ for a weak country.
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Since 1.3 all my protectorates became vassals rather fast.
Of course it takes more time when you "protect" a newly emerged space empire in late game, but apart from this case, they all eventually become standard vassals. The situation mught be a bit different if you're playing a tech-focused empire, but still.
Bring. Verb. 2nd meaning from Wikipedia:
"(transitive, figuratively) To supply or contribute."
Wich means that means exactly the opposite of what you somehow read.
They do not cost you influence. They give you influence.
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Protectorates give influence to their overlord until they reach a technological point, at which time they become vassals.
I want to be given the choice. It seems weird that as a xenophile empire, you can enlighten races enough for them to become protectorates, but then, you are never able to truly integrate them into your empire, unless you gift them a system or some other loophole workaround. Meanwhile, if you are not a xenophile, you can just assimilate them, and when they process is over, they are fully integrated into your empire (though w/ temporary happiness penalties)
If I want to play a vulcan-style race, great on tech and looking to enlighten races and fold them into a peaceful coalition, I should be able to without secretly replacing their population "They Live"-style
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In my current empire (fanatic individualist, materialist subconscious consensus) I am "in trouble" as I like waging liberation style wars. The liberated portions come under my sphere of influence as protectorates due to being a tech rusher (right now I may be over 50 techs more advanced that competing empires -other than the fallen empires-. By the way, I just won a war against one of the FA (a xenophobe one that DoW on me due to me colonizing nearby systems. One of their planets is now liberated and a vassal (research agreement with them is sooo nice).
The thing is that I just integrated the only vassals I had (other than the recently acquired liberated FE world). I do have like 10 protectorates... That means 5.0 extra influence that allows me having plenty of frontier outposts without having problems with influence. Being a democracy I also get the 250 influence bonus tied to filling the agenda (I keep a pool of planets with resources without building a mine, so I can fulfill easily miner mandates... it may be a democracy but the current first speaker has been reelected at least 6 times (!)).
Not being able to integrate the protectorates is a bit of a pity, but then... the influence bonus may be even better as I like to develop planets my self and "park" them in sectors when they are fully developed. Right now the number of core systems is the limiting factor (9 due to repeatable technologies). IMO, it may actually be an (unfair) advantage that technology focused empires can have and keep such a big number of protectorates that are unable to catch-up... just a lot of influence.
If being able to selectively convert the protectorates you want into vassals, then it may be quite overpowered. From this thread it seems that it is possible to do so by giving a developed planet. It may also be possible by giving resources via trade agreements beneficial for the protectorate so they can fully develop their systems.
The thing is that I just integrated the only vassals I had (other than the recently acquired liberated FE world). I do have like 10 protectorates... That means 5.0 extra influence that allows me having plenty of frontier outposts without having problems with influence. Being a democracy I also get the 250 influence bonus tied to filling the agenda (I keep a pool of planets with resources without building a mine, so I can fulfill easily miner mandates... it may be a democracy but the current first speaker has been reelected at least 6 times (!)).
Not being able to integrate the protectorates is a bit of a pity, but then... the influence bonus may be even better as I like to develop planets my self and "park" them in sectors when they are fully developed. Right now the number of core systems is the limiting factor (9 due to repeatable technologies). IMO, it may actually be an (unfair) advantage that technology focused empires can have and keep such a big number of protectorates that are unable to catch-up... just a lot of influence.
If being able to selectively convert the protectorates you want into vassals, then it may be quite overpowered. From this thread it seems that it is possible to do so by giving a developed planet. It may also be possible by giving resources via trade agreements beneficial for the protectorate so they can fully develop their systems.