Pros/Cons/Feasibility of creating overseas states?

[Nerva]

Playing as USA, I've got my eye on a number of core-less islands in the South Atlantic, Indian, and Pacific oceans, with the idea to claim or annex them for projecting naval power around the world. But I have a few questions:

1) I recall reading that only provinces in the Americas and Oceania get significant migration and thus it is next to impossible to get the 1% primary/accepted-culture bureaucrats required for statehood in places like Africa and Asia. So, am I right in thinking that places like Leeward Antilles (South America) and the Caroline Islands (Oceania) could become states of the USA, but Indian Ocean Territory (Africa) and Ceylon (Asia) could not?

2) What are the pros/cons of upgrading remote island possessions to statehood vs. upgrading to a colony vs. keeping them a protectorate? Would the Caroline Islands ever have more than negligible economic value? I am wondering if their relative vulnerability to being occupied during war and the associated warscore hit of the enemy controlling a state vs. just a colony might outweigh the economic benefits of statehood.

Personally... playing as USA, I have an aesthetic aversion to creating overseas states (outside the Americas), since it's the "United States of America", not "The United States of America and Oceania", but I also wanted to know what the strategic considerations are.

 

[Bouchart]

1) Some provinces has very low native populations. Even if immigration is small, between assimilation and setting a Focus on encourage bureaucrats can be enough to get you over the threshold.

2) You get prestige for turning a colony into a state. States can build factories and colonies can't. Colonies can be taken in war using the Place in the Sun CB, states have to be taken with the more expensive Acquire State CB. For something small and out of the way like Easter Island it's probably not going to make much difference either way.

 

[Nerva]

Regarding 2), my thinking is, there probably isn't much advantage to building factories if there's negligible population there to be employed in them.

Another question:

3) Assuming I claim or occupy some remote islands that I never intend to upgrade to states, and assuming I have a surplus of Colonial Power, is there any reason to upgrade Protectorates to Colonies? I think the main differences are taxation and soldier POPs, right? I also think Colonies attract more migration than Protectorates, but I could be wrong... in any case, my assumption was they won't be upgraded to states, so I would think migration wouldn't even be desirable in that scenario.

 

[Kovax]

Annex or colonize probably depends on the population and the particular resources in the region. If there's sufficient manpower and a lack of valuable resources, I'd probably prefer to annex and build factories (possibly depending on how much of a literacy hit it gives). If the resources are important and I need the existing population to farm or mine them, then it's better off as a colony.

In my current game, I grabbed about 2/3 of Egypt, and converted 3 regions into states. The rest will likely remain as colonies.

 

[Nerva]

What about Jan Mayen? It starts out unclaimed -- does it have a hidden core, or is it core-less? If it is core-less the USA could use it as a naval base in Europe. But the question is, how to get it in the USA's colonial range?? Even assuming I conquer Newfoundland, will technology ever give me enough naval range? I can't seem to find a table anywhere showing what the naval ranges are vs. tech. Then again, if it is core-less, I could let someone else claim it and then take it away -- but it Norway claims it, then I'll be stuck with the rest of Nordnorge if I take it. Who typically claims Jan Mayen?

 

[Greybeard0815]

In my current game, I grabbed about 2/3 of Egypt, and converted 3 regions into states. The rest will likely remain as colonies.

If you have states with lots of unaccepted cultures you can easily turn most African colonies into states. In my recent game as Germany (including Austria) I managed to turn all of Egypt (except the one with Cairo, Upper Egypt?) and my remaining colonies into states. Even New Guinea and Borneo are states now. It's 1926 and only the Moluccas and the Cairo-state and Hong Kong remain. And the Moluccas only remain because I lack colonial power (got almost 3200 and need 3600). Cairo also already is at 70% needed bureaucrats.
Using all foci to encourage immigrants seems to be really powerful.

What about Jan Mayen?

I may be wrong, but doesn't Jan Mayen have such a low life rating that it cannot be colonized?

In any case, whenever I played in the Americas I never expand outside them. Reason is simple. Pops always favor migrating to the Americas or Oceania. If you have colonies outside those regions Immigrants almost never go there. So turning them into states is while not impossible very very unlikely to happen.
I'd rather look for a nation that I can sphere or a Great Power to ally with and use them to project force.

 

[Nerva]

Jan Mayen has a LR of 5 -- if it is possible, I assume it is only possible very late in the game.

I don't particularly want overseas territories as USA, but the problem with relying on allies etc. is that while you can use their naval bases to repair, they can't supply your fleet when it is deployed, so you'll take attrition, which makes blockades much more difficult to sustain -- that's why Cape Verde and Jan Mayen are strategically useful for putting the screws on the European Great Powers as the USA.

 

[Nerva]

After some more examination, I see there is a big difference between Protectorates/Colonies vs. States when it comes to the effects of siege and control on War Exhaustion, Warscore, and Prestige. In the case of Protectorates/Colonies, there are small increases in War Exhaustion if they are blockaded or under siege (but not if they are controlled, ironically), there is a small effect on Warscore if they are controlled, and there are small penalties to Prestige if they are under siege (but not if they are controlled, ironically). But in the case of States, there are large effects on War Exhaustion for being blockaded, under siege, or controlled, there is a significant Warscore hit for States being controlled, and there are large effects on Prestige for being blockaded, under siege, or controlled. This confirms my earlier thinking that for a country like the USA, it is better to only turn the islands in the Caribbean (which are easily protected) into States, and not have States outside the Americas (where they are more vulnerable to blockade, siege, and loss of control).

Am I right in believing that Protectorates don't assimilate the native population? And is there no Colonial Migration to Protectorates? If so, then I would think that assuming I have a surplus of Colonial Power, the best choice for territory outside the Americas would be to upgrade them to Colonies, so that there is more migration to them to fill up their RGO's, and assimilation of the natives, so there are fewer non-accepted POPs, and the ability to locally raise troops in the Colony for defense.

 

[bstouttt]

Inability to figure out what differentiates protectorates vs colonies is highly frustrating when I play as a colonial power. When I started playing a year ago, I'd convert protectorates into colonies anytime after the Scramble for Africa if I had surplus colonial points. I don't now -- doing so is inauthentic, and I try to not play too "game-y" -- and cannot tell if there's any difference.

Two other threads I've found don't resolve the issue either:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/colonies-vs-protectorates.707435
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/protectorates-vs-colonies-vs-states.880870

 

[migalhone]

Inability to figure out what differentiates protectorates vs colonies is highly frustrating when I play as a colonial power. When I started playing a year ago, I'd convert protectorates into colonies anytime after the Scramble for Africa if I had surplus colonial points. I don't now -- doing so is inauthentic, and I try to not play too "game-y" -- and cannot tell if there's any difference.

Two other threads I've found don't resolve the issue either:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/colonies-vs-protectorates.707435
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/protectorates-vs-colonies-vs-states.880870

Hum, i recall reading in the HoD manual that the reason to make colonies out of protectorates is that you get more money and troops out of them.

 

[Nerva]

Do Colonies get more Colonial Migration than Protectorates?