Proposal(s) for Victoria 3
- Thread starter Pellaken
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Yeah, it's good you have your opinion. But sometimes people don't miss something until they have it. Like EU4. I never missed estates, but now I can't without them
In this thread I sometimes saw the suggestion for a ministers. So maybe there is a demand. With them there could be some cool effects helping your economy or increasing your taxes and stuff.
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You may have a point there. Hopefully it won't. Would be cool to see these changes, for example militancy, consiciousness and political leanings in minority regions vs. border regions, vs. inner regions.
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Main thing I think a new Victoria game needs is more individuality with each nation either with more events and decisions for countries, like historical routes (maybe some of the unfair treaties between western countries and China) or more form-able nations (like Iberia, etc) as these sorts of things give the game more direction but still providing the ability to go full sandbox, possibly using a similar system like the national focus trees from HoI 4 might work, just so by mid game you don't get all the same nations with the same structures and generic, since say in a game of EU4 you'd have certain nations which have different characteristics making so much more change, as you have nations which focused on trade and colonisation with GB and Portugal, the emperor, the BBB, Prussian and Swedish god troops, and Ottoman and Russian unlimited manpower and finally the varying levels of westernisation, giving more flavor to the global stage.
Just since my main problem with Victoria 2 was the fact you could do the exact moves and strategy for most countries (like Spain, Austria, Haiti, Hannover, and even Greece even with their diffent locations and situations) since you had a global reach to attack say Johore, or annexing Sokoto so you'd dominate Africa when scrabble for Africa begins, while working to the point where you can invade China, from where you're unstoppable, as this is the most efficient way of play doesn't vary much from nation to nation and many players try to play efficiently.
But, as for the economy and pop systems currently in Vicky 2 are good and shouldn't be overhauled in my opinion apart from maybe adjusting spending system slightly, as by the mid game your industry's just self-sufficient with the capitalist base you build, meaning you have no output to use your money, so you just lower taxes, or tariffs, to lower your gain leveling off meaning money is never an issue, while I like the EU4 system of up from costs big costs which you click and spend however much where it's more meaningful.
Just since my main problem with Victoria 2 was the fact you could do the exact moves and strategy for most countries (like Spain, Austria, Haiti, Hannover, and even Greece even with their diffent locations and situations) since you had a global reach to attack say Johore, or annexing Sokoto so you'd dominate Africa when scrabble for Africa begins, while working to the point where you can invade China, from where you're unstoppable, as this is the most efficient way of play doesn't vary much from nation to nation and many players try to play efficiently.
But, as for the economy and pop systems currently in Vicky 2 are good and shouldn't be overhauled in my opinion apart from maybe adjusting spending system slightly, as by the mid game your industry's just self-sufficient with the capitalist base you build, meaning you have no output to use your money, so you just lower taxes, or tariffs, to lower your gain leveling off meaning money is never an issue, while I like the EU4 system of up from costs big costs which you click and spend however much where it's more meaningful.
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Spain is tpretty much Iberia already, being a merger of Castille, Aragon, Navarra, and Catalonia. I would like to have a way to unify Portugal and Spain though, that would be cool. Maybe a nation called Spain, but has Portugese as an accepted culture and different flags?
Everything else in the post I agree with btw.
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Not sure if it's already been said, but I would love to see more pan-nationalism movements. For example, pan-Slavic movements were quite big in the 1800s but I feel like they're not really represented that much in the game. Also, I'd like to see more crazy alternate history scenarios happen in game, but perhaps have it as a "fantasy" setting whilst selecting what nation to play? In Victoria 2 the things I always watch out for is if Texas wins, or if Mexico takes Texas and keeps all of its lands. It'd be fun to have more things like this that could happen randomly.
Tone down/add additional conditions to the railroaded rebellions, particularly in East Asia. They're frustrating as hell.
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Or you know have ability to slowly ramp down mobilization?
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Playing off of the spheres of influence mechanic:
-- Immigration Influence --
A slight boost to influence generation will be granted for nations with significant immigration from their country to the country they are trying to sphere, at least until they assimilate into the local culture.
-- Vassal Spheres --
An exception to the rule that only great powers can create spheres, any Wesernized nation with puppets/vassals/satellites/personal unions (etc.) can form a sphere with that country they rule over. However, their vassal is still susceptible to being sphered by other great powers. If a country loses great power status, they can still maintain their vassals as a part of their sphere of influence.
-- Sakoku --
Building influence with Japan will be severely reduced unless they either repeal Sakoku or are forced to open negotiations via gunboat diplomacy by a westernized nation. (The westernization process for Japan will not begin while still under Sakoku as well.)
-- Special Case: The German Confederation & Zollverein --
The historical member states of the German Confederation will join together for mutual defense in the case of invasion from a non-member state (but inter-confederation war between Austria and Prussia, for example, would be split by their spheres of influence/alliances as currently implemented).
Influence generated by non-member states toward member states is severely reduced, with the exception of the UK>Hannover, Denmark>Holstein, and Netherlands>Luxembourg due to vassalage and personal unions (symbolizing their envoy votes in the confederation).
Member states can decide to join into an economic union with other member-states called "Zollverein". Zollverein tariffs do not apply to member states that choose to join the customs union (but each state can still set their own tariffs for non-member states). This is in addition to the common market mechanic from being sphered; so Hannover, for example, would benefit from both the common market of the UK and the customs union in the German Confederation should they join at the start.
Zollverein members also receive a proportional share of union revenues based on population (incentive to join), however joining the customs union makes the member states susceptible to a gradual influence tick for Prussia (disincentive to join if wanting to remain in another sphere as well). Austria should be barred from being able to join the Zollverein for as long as they are a great power. Additionally, no member of the German Confederation can expel advisers of ban embassies of other confederation members (or their suzerain/personal union).
If Prussia's Zollverein influence is gradual and broad, Austria's influence, as perpetual president of the German Confederation, is focused but limited; most of the confederation members will start in Austria's sphere of influence, but as more members join the Zollverein, a point of no return will be crossed when Prussia will have an easier time prying confederation members from Austria's sphere.
Prussia can form the North German Confederation as usual, but the southern states will not join the German Empire until the German Confederation is dismantled, either by defeating Austria and usurping their presidency in the brothers' war, or becoming the only great power state in the confederation.
Even after the German Confederation is replaced by the German Empire, non-annexed Zollverein members such as Luxemburg can still benefit from both the customs union and the common market of their sphere leader (if not already sphered by Germany).
-- Immigration Influence --
A slight boost to influence generation will be granted for nations with significant immigration from their country to the country they are trying to sphere, at least until they assimilate into the local culture.
-- Vassal Spheres --
An exception to the rule that only great powers can create spheres, any Wesernized nation with puppets/vassals/satellites/personal unions (etc.) can form a sphere with that country they rule over. However, their vassal is still susceptible to being sphered by other great powers. If a country loses great power status, they can still maintain their vassals as a part of their sphere of influence.
-- Sakoku --
Building influence with Japan will be severely reduced unless they either repeal Sakoku or are forced to open negotiations via gunboat diplomacy by a westernized nation. (The westernization process for Japan will not begin while still under Sakoku as well.)
-- Special Case: The German Confederation & Zollverein --
The historical member states of the German Confederation will join together for mutual defense in the case of invasion from a non-member state (but inter-confederation war between Austria and Prussia, for example, would be split by their spheres of influence/alliances as currently implemented).
Influence generated by non-member states toward member states is severely reduced, with the exception of the UK>Hannover, Denmark>Holstein, and Netherlands>Luxembourg due to vassalage and personal unions (symbolizing their envoy votes in the confederation).
Member states can decide to join into an economic union with other member-states called "Zollverein". Zollverein tariffs do not apply to member states that choose to join the customs union (but each state can still set their own tariffs for non-member states). This is in addition to the common market mechanic from being sphered; so Hannover, for example, would benefit from both the common market of the UK and the customs union in the German Confederation should they join at the start.
Zollverein members also receive a proportional share of union revenues based on population (incentive to join), however joining the customs union makes the member states susceptible to a gradual influence tick for Prussia (disincentive to join if wanting to remain in another sphere as well). Austria should be barred from being able to join the Zollverein for as long as they are a great power. Additionally, no member of the German Confederation can expel advisers of ban embassies of other confederation members (or their suzerain/personal union).
If Prussia's Zollverein influence is gradual and broad, Austria's influence, as perpetual president of the German Confederation, is focused but limited; most of the confederation members will start in Austria's sphere of influence, but as more members join the Zollverein, a point of no return will be crossed when Prussia will have an easier time prying confederation members from Austria's sphere.
Prussia can form the North German Confederation as usual, but the southern states will not join the German Empire until the German Confederation is dismantled, either by defeating Austria and usurping their presidency in the brothers' war, or becoming the only great power state in the confederation.
Even after the German Confederation is replaced by the German Empire, non-annexed Zollverein members such as Luxemburg can still benefit from both the customs union and the common market of their sphere leader (if not already sphered by Germany).
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The infamy needs to be overhauled. Three worthless islands colonies of UK = 30 infamy, massive war coalition against you.
Get two core provinces at the south of UK = 22 infamy no problem.
Should be more like agressive expansion of eu4 or threat in hoi3.
Get two core provinces at the south of UK = 22 infamy no problem.
Should be more like agressive expansion of eu4 or threat in hoi3.
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As a PhD student in Demography I would say only one thing (sorry for caps, but this issue is really and completely broken and ignored in Vicky):
_DEVS, PLEASE MAKE PROPER DEMOGRAPHIC TRANSITION IN VIII_
_PLEASE IMPLEMENT FERTILITY AND MORTALITY INDICATORS_
_AT LEAST SOME VERY SIMPLIFIED POPULATION PyRAMID, PLEAASE_
This was the key force that was fueling major wars like WWI or WWII or Russian Civil War or many other wars. And this was the key thing that was driving emigration in that time.
France was bad in wars (as well as in colonization) just because fertility decline started there 100 years earlier than in the rest of the Europe (Scandinavia excluding). Mortality and fertility were declining, natural growth became low, population pyramid changed a lot. While in Germany fertility was much, much higher, it started to decline much later (France was more socially modernized) and youth (young men of military age) constituted much larger share in population so demographic burden became much lower in Germany than in France.
Here are some sources:
https://www.ined.fr/fichier/s_rubrique/19155/pesa487.en.pdf
http://demographic-challenge.com/fi...87/dc_the-historical-fertility-transition.pdf
(!fig. 3)
http://etheses.lse.ac.uk/39/1/Cummins_Why_did_fertility_decline.pdf
(fig. 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, table 3.3, fig. 3.5, 3.7, page 308)
And an interesting interactive example of demogrpahic modeling can be found here:
http://www.ined.fr/en/everything_about_population/population-games/tomorrow-population/
http://www.ined.fr/en/everything_about_population/graphs-maps/population_graphs/
https://datamarket.com/gallery/population_pyramid/
One of the best books about demographic history: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/352288.A_Concise_History_of_World_Population
_DEVS, PLEASE MAKE PROPER DEMOGRAPHIC TRANSITION IN VIII_
_PLEASE IMPLEMENT FERTILITY AND MORTALITY INDICATORS_
_AT LEAST SOME VERY SIMPLIFIED POPULATION PyRAMID, PLEAASE_
This was the key force that was fueling major wars like WWI or WWII or Russian Civil War or many other wars. And this was the key thing that was driving emigration in that time.
France was bad in wars (as well as in colonization) just because fertility decline started there 100 years earlier than in the rest of the Europe (Scandinavia excluding). Mortality and fertility were declining, natural growth became low, population pyramid changed a lot. While in Germany fertility was much, much higher, it started to decline much later (France was more socially modernized) and youth (young men of military age) constituted much larger share in population so demographic burden became much lower in Germany than in France.
Here are some sources:
https://www.ined.fr/fichier/s_rubrique/19155/pesa487.en.pdf
http://demographic-challenge.com/fi...87/dc_the-historical-fertility-transition.pdf
(!fig. 3)
http://etheses.lse.ac.uk/39/1/Cummins_Why_did_fertility_decline.pdf
(fig. 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, table 3.3, fig. 3.5, 3.7, page 308)
And an interesting interactive example of demogrpahic modeling can be found here:
http://www.ined.fr/en/everything_about_population/population-games/tomorrow-population/
http://www.ined.fr/en/everything_about_population/graphs-maps/population_graphs/
https://datamarket.com/gallery/population_pyramid/
One of the best books about demographic history: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/352288.A_Concise_History_of_World_Population
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For planned economy (maybe even state capitalism) for cerian states automatize facotry building, care, subsidues,closing,opening, of course you can set goals,quotas and other instructions, let's hope that the ai will not suck like sector governors in stellaris.
Advisors like in HOI 4/EU4 (buff, sometimes buff + debuff etc.), they will be specially created for major countries, they will have their own ideologies - now that leads to coalitions, or maybe somethings based on them. If Ruling party is liberal for example, yet they have only 40% percent in upper house, they ccan enter into coalition with socialists who have only 12% in UH, they will also appoint one of them as advisor(maybe change that name to ministers) and change one of policies (two if coalitioner is powerful enough) by one step. example laisezz faire -> interventionism antimilitary -> pacifism. Of course parties can refuse, they will more likely to accept if they have more slimmar policies, and are weak.
There should be restrictions liberals can't enter into coalition with facist,commies,reactionaries,conservatives before communism appears. conservatives can't with anarcho-liberal,communists,facists9but they can if revanchism is high enough, and plurality low. Facist can enter into coaliton only with specific conditions met. Communists only with socialists if they are in democracy.
Advisors like in HOI 4/EU4 (buff, sometimes buff + debuff etc.), they will be specially created for major countries, they will have their own ideologies - now that leads to coalitions, or maybe somethings based on them. If Ruling party is liberal for example, yet they have only 40% percent in upper house, they ccan enter into coalition with socialists who have only 12% in UH, they will also appoint one of them as advisor(maybe change that name to ministers) and change one of policies (two if coalitioner is powerful enough) by one step. example laisezz faire -> interventionism antimilitary -> pacifism. Of course parties can refuse, they will more likely to accept if they have more slimmar policies, and are weak.
There should be restrictions liberals can't enter into coalition with facist,commies,reactionaries,conservatives before communism appears. conservatives can't with anarcho-liberal,communists,facists9but they can if revanchism is high enough, and plurality low. Facist can enter into coaliton only with specific conditions met. Communists only with socialists if they are in democracy.
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I would certainly like languages added, because culture is good and all, but yankees, dixies, texans, and Austraians still all speak english.
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How would it work?/What would it add (apart from more values)?
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It could influence admin efficiency. If the inhabitants of your nation largely speakk the same language the beureaucracy should have an easier time keeping the state running, even if they are not of an accepted culture.
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It could also potentially effect literacy/tech-spread and, if a more EUIV-esque trade system is used, some kind of trade efficiency?
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One thing that keeps bothering me about Vic 2 that should change: keep the colonies and the mainland separate. I.e. colonial populatons should not show up in the pop stats of the metropolis (the UK was NOT majority Bengali), the colonies with fewer than 10% European migrant population should not be eligible to become dominions, colonies should not become states, and development in colonies should be made more expensive and cumbersome. It is absurd for Germany to have more railways in Africa than at home and have half its army composed out of Bantu soldiers.
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If we want to couple this with national flavor decisions/events, allow France to make the coastal regions of Algeria an integral part of France proper.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Algeria
In lieu of becoming states, maybe allow colonies to gain an element of self-rule under a commonwealth lead by the home country when certain demographic/literacy/administration conditions are met?
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