Proposal: New names for the political ideologies

[unmerged(102005)]

The ideology names from HoI2, which are in the current screenshots, are potentially confusing if you aren't familiar with them. I'd propose to replace them with names which show their relations to each other more clearly.

I think changes similar to these lines would be sufficient:

National Socialist -> Fascist
Fascist -> Reactionary
Paternal Autocrat -> Right Wing Traditionalist
Social Conservative -> Social Conservative
Market Liberal -> Market Liberal
Social Liberal -> Social Liberal
Social Democrat -> Social Democrat
Left Wing Radical -> Left Wing Radical
Leninist -> Socialist
Stalinist -> Communist

These changes seem like they would take five minutes to implement, and I don't see any reason not to implement them other than nostalgia.

 

[FOARP]

On the other hand, I don't see any reason to make these changes. Why is 'socialist' more extreme than 'left wing radical'? Why are reactionaries necessarily right-wing? Why is a 'traditionalist' necessarily more extreme? These seem like arbitrary changes. At least with 'Leninist' I can understand that the government is one less dictatorial than a 'Stalinist' one, likewise the difference between 'Nat. Socialist' and 'Fascist' - they link to real life examples.

 

[unmerged(37697)]

Yes, and do not confuse socialism with Leninism and Stalinism... o

 

[unmerged(110676)]

Scrap sliders with the brand new triangle of love.

 

[Xz2]

all from social democrat to stalinist could be call'd socialist. It is not clear why lenin should not be a commie. etc etc

 

[unmerged(94346)]

No, they should leave it as it is. It doesn't make any sense for "socialism" to come before "communism."

 

[unmerged(136038)]

Paternal Autocrat could be cleared up though. It seemed sort of confusing at first.

 

[unmerged(102005)]

Yes, and do not confuse socialism with Leninism and Stalinism... o

all from social democrat to stalinist could be call'd socialist. It is not clear why lenin should not be a commie. etc etc

In HoI2, Leninism and Stalinism had absolutely nothing to do with either Lenin or Stalin, but rather specific positions on sliders. I'd argue that the devs shouldn't use their names, or the name of a German political party, for much broader ideologies. Same with the term "Paternal Autocrat." A paternal autocrat isn't a type of ideology, it's a leader!

Scrap sliders with the brand new triangle of love.

The screenshots so far seem to indicate that we'll still have these individual ideologies, seperate from the triangle.

 

[Voss]

Nazism isn't equal to fascism. Paternal Autocrat should be changed to f.e military junta. "Left Wing Radicals" should be syndicalists.

 

[unmerged(102005)]

No, they should leave it as it is. It doesn't make any sense for "socialism" to come before "communism."

Why? Historically, "communist" referred to more hard-line leftist parties where less doctrinarian far-left parties more inclined to compromise tended to label themselves "socialist" in order to distance themselves from the Bolsheviks, and embrace their ties to the pre-Great War socialists.

 

[zeekater]

I never really understood what 'paternal autocrat' was... for me it meant 'the ones you might get to join you as Germany'

 

[unmerged(136038)]

Paternal Autocrat isnt always a military govenment though.

 

[Black Lotus]

Reactionary wouldn't be much help to the common person, and Socialism does not equal Leninism, remember even Lenin wanted a type of "Free Market" in order to allow farmers for example to sell their extra produce to obtain a profit.

 

[unmerged(123225)]

Only ones I want to see changed are the 2 on the Left:
-LWR > Socialist
-Leninist > Communist

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

I never really understood what 'paternal autocrat' was... for me it meant 'the ones you might get to join you as Germany'

A dictatorship which isn't fascist or communist. For instance an absolute monarchy.

 

[Alsadius]

Given that there's no real mechanical difference between them, I see no need to change the names that players of the past games are familiar with in order to use slightly more common, but no more useful, terms. Consistency is to be preferred unless the change is actually better, and this one really isn't.

 

[semaphore]

These changes seem like they would take five minutes to implement, and I don't see any reason not to implement them other than nostalgia.

On the other hand, I don't see any reason to implement them at all. Why is Nationalist Socialist less confusing than Fascist, or Communist clearer than Stalinist? I am not necessarily opposed to renaming the ideologies, but I think there ought to be a real reason to do so. "No reason not to" is not exactly one.

There might be a case with Paternal Autocrat though.

 

[unmerged(52507)]

I can see that there might be some confusion with the current situation, but I am not convinced by any of the new suggestions. And Fascist seems to have more explanatory power for the average person than the more technical 'reactionary'

 

[Hayden]

The current system works well enough, I'm just as comfortable with Paradox keeping what they have.

 

[unmerged(44926)]

I could see a case for renaming Paternal Autocrat to something like "Traditionalist Autocrat" or "Authoritarian Conservative" simply because the paternal part in Paternal Autocrat suggests to me some sort of desire to improve the lot of the people, which, considering some of the nations considered PA in HoI2, is not always the case.

I'm also not entirely comfortable with "National Socialism" "Stalinism" or "Leninism" because while odds are that any nation in the HoI time period at either extreme of the political spectrum would probably be modeling themselves after either Nazi Germany or the USSR, this isn't necessarily true. No idea what to else to call them though.